Michael Jackson Pedophile Reality Check: Is It Mean to Suspect that Michael Jackson Might Have Been a Pedophile?

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The short answer is no, it’s not mean or irrational.

Under normal circumstances nobody gets to do what Michael Jackson did (bring unrelated children into his bedroom overnight). No adult man gets to do that without suspicion cast upon him by other adults. It’s simply not sane to give adult males that kind of latitude with the most vulnerable among us. And for Jackson to engage in that behavior—bringing children into his bedroom overnight—and then act put-upon by the public for being suspicious that he was a pedophile is outrageous.

An analogy: Every weekend a suburban woman goes to a street corner known to be frequented by prostitutes. She gets picked up by cruising men who drive her to nearby motels. Before they return her to the same street corner, they give her money. She tells people that she never has sex with the men. Never touches them. Never blows them. Never lets them put their hands on her. She just talks to them. They simply drive around. She feels compassion for the men. They’re lonely. She tells them about Jesus. She wants to help them. She doesn’t understand why all those around her suspect she’s a whore.

Jackson engaged in equally outrageous (and suspicion generating) actions—many of them characteristic of pedophiles—and then he is shocked—shocked!—that people might suspect that he is, well, a pedophile. And the power disparity between Jackson and the children who visited his bedroom for “sleep-overs” is enormous. A wealthy man in his forties was bringing children unrelated to him into his bedroom alone overnight. A person needs to absorb the import of that before suggesting that the suspicion directed toward Jackson is unreasonable and based on animus.

Furthermore, to treat pedophile-suspicion directed toward Michael Jackson as a form of persecution is to tell people it is wrong to speak plainly about what is evident. Jackson lived his life in ways characteristic of a pedophile. It doesn’t mean that he was one. It means that there is a real probability that he was one. No adult male gets to bring unrelated children into his bedroom alone overnight without suspicion being rendered by other adults. It would be a monstrous dereliction of duty toward the children involved not to cast that suspicion. And it would be Orwellian not to speak to others plainly about it.

I understand “innocent until proven guilty.” But I sure the hell wouldn’t have had him anywhere near my children. And the children that he did bring around him were oftentimes hugely vulnerable (cancer patients; boys of poor single mothers). An adult single male obsessed with Peter Pan and decorating his bedroom with children’s toys was bringing kids into his bedroom for “sleep-overs.” That should set off five alarm predator worries in any sane parent who is not stupid or tempted by greed. And Jackson showed zero evidence of having any serious impulse control. The older I get, the less patience I have for bullshitters. Michael Jackson was, in my view, a huge bullshitter who got away with spectacular amounts of bullshit. It’s like Rush Limbaugh, G. Beck, and Jimmy Swaggart. Everyday, bullshitters look at their bank accounts and say, “How stupid people are!” This, in my view, was what Jackson was doing. He was using his fame and wealth and “mystery power” to get away with things. It’s an old game. If you dress like a glitzy version of Captain Crunch (as Chris Rock noted that Jackson did), or put on the clothing of a priest, or have money, then you can cast spells on people and get away with stuff.

Jackson was a spell-caster.

Below is a video of reporter Martin Bashir speaking of Jackson. Bashir illustrates the problem. Note Bashir’s rhetorical tone-down of what it means to be a single man bringing young boys into his bedroom for “sleep-overs,” and his logically fallacious “I never saw anything” obscurantism. His emotional solemnity is also cloying. It’s all slight of hand and euphemism. Of course he wouldn’t have seen anything. It means nothing. I have a great deal of contempt for people who use language in ways that distort, rather than clarify, an issue. It’s like using “enhanced interrogation” for “torture.” Michael Jackson was suspected of being a pedophile because he brought vulnerable children into his orbit and took them into his bedroom overnight alone. At least Bashir, as a journalist, could describe things accurately. But, of course, he doesn’t. But the rest of us should.

I can see why the embedding of this video was disabled. Its complicity is shameful. But you can still get to it directly here.

About Santi Tafarella

I teach writing and literature at Antelope Valley College in California.
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148 Responses to Michael Jackson Pedophile Reality Check: Is It Mean to Suspect that Michael Jackson Might Have Been a Pedophile?

  1. Pingback: Michael Jackson. The Emperor Has No Clothes? « Prometheus Unbound

    • altairm says:

      This message is to the blogger: My question is how can you claim you understand “Innocent until proven guilty” and yet, your whole article is based on nothing but speculation? Since you are bent on finding out the “truth” and if that’s so, then you know that Michael’s accuser finally admitted to the public that he lied. In fact, not only that, but years before in court, the kid tried to guess what Michael’s penis looked like and guessed wrong. He said michael was circumcised and michael is not. That’s one of the reasons why the case was thrown out. I think your analogy is reasonable, but cannot and should not be used to try convict someone of a crime that they may not have committed. It’s not fair. I know a few people from documentaries that have been prosecuted, thrown in prison for years, luckily had the case re-tried, only for the jury to realize that that person was innocent. It was either the city, or the state had to pay a huge fine to that victim and their family for hurting these innocent people. Yes.. assuming can surely make you into an a$$. No offense. I also don’t think Michael ever lived “alone” in the traditional sense. He always had people working in that house-hold and around him to be there through his beck and call. So even though he had some privacy, it could never be enough to solicit young children into his home to bed them. Now, the question as to why he had all those children at his house in the first place? Has anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe, there was no perverted reason? Here are some possibilities: That he had a huge park to himself that was just sitting there collecting dust and he thought to share it with kids he knew would appreciate it? That since these kids were staying over to spend time with the “biggest star” that he felt he had to entertain them all through-out their stay? I think Michael was 19yrs old when he bought the ranch. right? So, all these impulsive buys to entertain himself, i’m sure he thought to eventually extend it out after he realized he cant enjoy the stuff every single day by himself. The children: I feel we should thank God Michael never hurt those children instead of holding on to “possible” perverted thoughts. I have kids of my own and A lot of children have no concept of boundaries and tend to latch on any person of interest. Some people feel uncomfortable with this, like you, and immediately create space… others have a much more relaxed attitude about it. In fact, I had also taken on other peoples children before I was ready to have my own. I do sympathize with your concern though. I have talked with victims and had a close call with a real pedophile when i was young. I suggest that if you REALLY want to see the characteristics of a pedophile, then do your homework because being “open” to children is different than “preying” on them. I don’t know any pedophile who acts in the open like Michael did. I’m talking about the interview with Bashir and continuing to bring kids over after the first accusation. A lot of them prey from a distance, act in haste, desperation and in private.

      • LIsen says:

        Michael Jackson is the most unlikely pedophile you could actually ever find in the whole wide universe. Pedophiles just never behave the way MJ did. Pedophiles is all over Hollywoodindustry and they are very respectable people. They dont go around talking about loving all children, giving away all the money to charity or trying to save the world
        or any of those naive or sometimes strange things MJ did.. They absolutly dont look freaky or behave eccentric at all. Pedophiles are very sophisticated and very careful about their public apperance and they usually belongs to networks of other respetable looking pedophile. Yes I read all the reports from the MJ trials 93/05 and I actually start to laugh. And I would guess that all the real pedophiles in Hollywood were really, really happy that Michael Jackson could be used as the bogeyman.
        I am not an MJ fan but I do research. I would say that the only person Michael Jackson really hurt badly was himself. Excuse my english I am not from your country and I am quite happy about that. I really dont like your culture at all. I find it stupid and utterly naive. The way MJ was treated actually reflects a lot about what I really dislike about your country.

      • paradais says:

        I can’t believe how stupid the average person is from the USA. It’s actually quite scary. People are happy to believe whatever they read in trashy media reports without the slightest interest in doing any proper research themselves. The more sensational the more truth it is given. I don’t understand why a country supposedly so sophisticated would altolerate slander such that was dished out to Michael in the media by people hosting television shows. Surely it’s obvious why they would say these things? What a sick society!

  2. Harold says:

    I agree with content of this blog as I believe where there is smoke there is fire and the suspicious smoke surrounding Michael Jackson was the equivalent of the Great Chicago Fire.

    I also agree that Jimmy Swaggart, Michael Jackson and even Rush Limbaugh are bullshitters. (Rush because he praises all things R and denigrates all things D.) But I disagree about Glenn Beck. He is a conservative commentator who like other commentators just speak their opinion. I personally find him to be conscientious and accurate. He admits when he was wrong, and gets blasted by liberal apologists. And the liberal apologists (like B. Walters and W. Goldberg) do not offer the same courtesy of admitting when they got something wrong about Beck.

  3. Katherine says:

    It is very reassuring to read and see the intelligence of this blog after all the BS of the press coverage.

    I loved Jackson’s music and dancing, but he was a paedophile and young, vulnerable children were exploited for his grown man perversions.

    Just read the transcript of Jordan Chandler’s evidence in court, it is sickening and a child could not make it up.

    Very rich people can get away with anything they want and we the people allow it, through our infatuation with celebrity.

    As for Bashir saying Jackson was the greatest song and dance entertainer. Ever heard of Fred Astair? And he did not generate rumours involving children.

  4. Will says:

    I’m a fan of Fred Astaire but Michael Jackson was a thousand times more talented. As far as pedophilia goes, who cares?

    MJ is dead now. Get over it.

    • Ginnette says:

      Get over it? Is that what you tell his tens and probably hundreds of victims? A majority of them will never get over it and that needs to be acknowleged. I just don’t understand how people have turned a blind eye to the victims and the consequences they suffer at the hands of Michael Jackson.

      When I saw Michael Jackson’s performance at the Mowtown 25 celebration, it blew me away. It’s probably the greatest performance I’ve ever viewed. So what. He was a serial pedophile who destroyed countless lives. That is what matters!

      • santitafarella says:

        Ginnette:

        To be fair, he was an alleged pedophile. He was never convicted.

        —Santi

      • Will says:

        Ginnette:

        Yes, that is what I would tell his alleged victims. He’s dead now. What can they or anyone else do about it now?

      • Jane Doe says:

        If he destoyed countless lives,,,,,here is my question,,,they are all adults now…..WHERE ARE THEY??? Why are they not on tv talking about their ruined lives?

      • Anonymous says:

        Lisen,
        Loved your reply. Very well articulated, especially if you’re not an English speaker! Don’t know where you’re from but I totally agree. The USA in general, perhaps largely media driven but possibly representing the views of a large number of ignorant people, has a lot to answer for regarding their treatment of Michael Jackson. I’m not from there either and wouldn’t want to be. It seems to me to be about chopping down those people that are different and/or those that do well, especially if you’re both.

        Ginette,
        You speak as if you were in the bedroom when Michael was alleged to have committed those crimes. What proof do you have? I see one life destroyed – that of Michael Jackson himself. Comments like yours made before he died would have been to Michael death by countless cuts. I think it is time that you did get over it.

      • Jim says:

        Excuse me, but there are many adult celebrities that talk about having stayed over MJ’s house as children without having been molested. MJ’s children speak of him fondly and that’s not the signature of a pedophile. However, even the child who accused MJ already confessed that his father who has since passed put him up to it due to money problems.

        So, what more do you need and is it really as surprise that money was the reason for all of the accusations? You’d have to be stupid not to have suspected that especially when the molested children’s families took a payout to drop the charges and what parent does that if it really happened? The jealous media killed MJ and they want to attack his doctor to avert blame.

      • James says:

        Read the other posts! One of his alleged victims already confessed that they lied about his having molested him. His father put him up to it due to financial trouble. But, common sense should prevail and what parent takes a payoff instead of justice in their child had really been molested? Duh?

        There are also no hundreds of victims because in the case of a celebrity once someone comes out everyone comes out like bees from a hive. There’s a double standard in our society because we trust women such as in babysitting but we seem to think all men are sexual deviants. MJ was a man by age but a child at heart.

      • Anonymous says:

        turges.touche Right ON EXACTLY💛

  5. Katherine says:

    Well Will, I don’t think Jackson was more talented than Astaire. And why should we get over his pedophilia? Why should it be OK to sexually abuse young children just because you like Jackson’s “Pop music” and moonwalk?

    As a matter of talent, not pedophilia, try watching Astaire dance “Putting on the Ritz”. It is far better than the strutting and posing before a moonwalk.

    It is not OK to sexually asault little children or seduce poor people with money, so you can get your hands on their kids. If you don’t like that, get over it!

    • Will says:

      You can Michael’s dancing “strutting” and “posing,” but it’s still much more refined than anything Fred Astaire did. Anyway, judging dancing is subjective, so it doesn’t matter to me if you think Astaire is better.

      As for the “molestation,” if it occured, why did the mother of the boy side with Michael? Why would they just take money and not demand MJ be thrown in prison?
      Honestly, no one will ever know for sure, but it just seems like that kid’s father was after money.

      • college student says:

        I think Jackson was clearly guilty, no sane person would think otherwise. But I still like his music, even though I don’t like his molestation of kids.

  6. Michelle says:

    Much as I liked Michael Jackson, I think he took a really wrong turn later in life. We all know he didn’t experience a normal childhood and suffered abuse at the hands of his father. But this is no excuse. He was protected by everyone around him when he should have been receiving help/therapy for his problems. Not he is dead through self-destructive means at age 50.

    After Brooke Shields spoke at his memorial it’s clear they were close. Yet he turned her down for being too ‘ordinary’ and not high enough legend status. Instead he ended up alone except for the kids at Neverland Ranch. And his world became very sick indeed.

    I’d like to remember the music and entertainment, he was a remarkable performer. But making him a national icon and heroic figure is inappropriate and dangerous, in my opinion. He was warned about the consequences of his behaviour but would not listen. So unfortunately that was the price he paid.

    • annalis says:

      Dear
      Actually MJ proposed to Brooke Shields and it was she turned him down. He had her posters in his bedroom as a child-his sisters would take them down.
      He went out with Caroline Kennedy and she refused to kiss hm saying tht her mother would never approve her kissing a black man. He was really in love with Diana Ross for years but she married a white norwegian millionaire-he ws so upset he wouldnt go to the wedding
      Theres a lot of evidence he went out with Princess Stephanie of Monaco and he went out with two black singing stars before Lisa Marie – you can see them on youtube-Stephanie Mills and Romona G. a Motown singer plus Shana Mangatal who worked for MJ publicity. All of these are pictured and interviewed on youtube. However-fans did not like the ides of their stars romantically involved. But he believed in waiting for marriage for sex – as a Jehovahs Witness. Whats wrong with that? In 2003 he went out with a lovely French girl-joanna Morae- and she was completely flamed by his fans. This is covered by the French press and US TV. MJ liked to keep his private life private!

  7. SoCalGal says:

    Michelle, can you cite with credibility that Michael turned Brooke Shields down because she was “too ordinary?” It seems that he asked her several times to marry him but she declined.

    In any event, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that he’s called iconic because he was. He gave millions and millions to childrens charities. He spent as much time visiting sick children in hospitals as he did giving concerts–which to many people is heroic. Whatever his personal demons–and there surely were many, he played an important part in many people’s lives, and for that he should be given his due.

  8. Lorrie says:

    Michael Jackson was many things, including too honest when trying to explain his attitude towards children, but he was not a pedophile.

    (1) The 1993 case involving Michael Jackson was blatant extortion instigated by a shady and pathetic dentist who maliciously manipulated and drugged his son for that express purpose. [SEE: tr.im/t4P5, tr.im/t4OR, tr.im/t4OY]

    (2) Michael Jackson’s insurance company negotiated and paid to settle the 1993 case — and I quote from a legal document filed with the appropriate court — “over the protests of Mr. Jackson and his personal legal counsel.” Those present say that Jackson nearly collapsed when told he was being forced to settle instead of pursuing vindication in court. [SEE: tr.im/t4Ob]

    (3) The 2005 case was likewise an extortion attempt rooted in mind-numbing greed. Furthermore, the perpetrators were proven serial liars who had attempted similar nonsense against other celebrities previously. The behavior of the accuser’s mother, both in and out of court, also hinted she could be mentally ill. [SEE: tr.im/t4Qg]

    (4) There are no other child molestation charges against Michael Jackson, although pedophiles are notorious for leaving a trail of over 200 victims during their lifetime. How interesting considering the large number of children Jackson interacted with on a regular basis before and after the allegations.

    Honestly, at this late stage the facts are all readily available, most right on the Internet. Instead of hastily labeling or blindly wondering whether Michael Jackson was a pedophile, just open your eyes with a little interesting reading based on reality.

    You might be surprised at what you learn and then you can enjoy Michael’s legacy fully and taint-free. He really was only trying to make the world a better place for children, and he succeeded with all but two who were used and abused by their lousy excuse for parents.

    • pgAesthetics says:

      This is something I’d like to look into too. What are your sources?

      • Ginnette says:

        Definately read Diane Dimond’s book “Be Careful Who You Love; Inside The Michael Jackson Case”

      • pgAesthetics says:

        I feel afraid to trust these sources. I worry about believing them (including that book and websites that have this information). How do they get it, is it credible?

      • fgreen says:

        Definitely read The Michael Jackson Conspiracy by Aphrodite Jones. and Redemption by Geraldine Hughes

        These both should be enough to clear Michael’s name once and for all.

        Everyone needs to stop taking what the media feeds them as fact. The media did their best to make him
        out to be guilty and not report all facts. Look into the lives of the accusers and the facts of the case before you label poor Michael a pedophile. He did more humanitarian things to help sick children that the media never reports, even now.

        Also, I know for a fact that children do lie about sexual abuse at times. To please someone (parents)
        or for revenge. It happened in my family…the child admitted he made it up because he was mad.

        Michael was a lovely human being and should be treated as such. Let the poor man be vindicated and RIP.

    • paradais says:

      This is an excellent and well-constructed reply based on reality. It’s all too easy for those looking for to hate someone to label Michael as a pedophile. How they reach this verdict is all too mysterious and never backed by documented research. You are quite right in that there is an abundance of evidence to clear Michael’s name absolutely in both cases. Another interesting fact is the suicide of Evan Chandler and his documented psychotic illness and his attempted murder of his own son. It’s curious that MJ accusers don’t ever appear to acknowledge facts like these. It’s a shame, because as you say, many do like MJ’s music, but feel they have permission to hate him because they’ve chosen to believe the trashy tabloids. It’s also well documented that pedophiles do leave a trail of victims in the hundreds. If MJ had been one, they would be coming out of the woodwork every where now. To the contrary, MJ innocently loved children and naively saw nothing wrong with his behaviour. Sad world though when you can’t show innocent love to children without being accused of a pedophile.

  9. RealityCheck says:

    Michael Jackson selected his victims carefully, all were from dysfunctional families with wack job parents, and he showered the boys and their families with lavish gifts so that they could later be portrayed as grifters should his situation with his little lovers go south. Jackson’s defenders think exposing the dysfunction of these families some how exonerates him from their charges, and yet if you really think about it, these were obviously not the kind of people a wealthy superstar of Jackson’s stature would normally choose to have anything to with, let alone shower with money, gifts and attention… well, unless he had some ulterior motive that is.

    That being said, the fact remains that Jordan Chandler accurately described and portrayed in drawings Jackson’s genitals. Chandler’s drawings were a close match to the photos taken by investigators some weeks later. Jackson’s defenders falsely claim otherwise, and yet the fact also remains that the Santa Barbara District Attorney (one of the few people who can claim to have actually seen the drawings and photos) wanted to have this evidence from the 1993 case admitted into evidence at Jackson’s 2004 criminal trial (see link to original Court TV coverage of the trial below).

    Now ask yourself this: If Chandler failed to accurately portray Jackson’s most intimate parts, reportedly including the way a certain mark on the supposed King of Pop’s penis changed location when it was erect, why on earth did prosecutors want so badly for the 2004 jury to see this evidence?

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060102141420/www.courttv.com/trials/jackson/052605_ctv.html

    Also, I find it curious that Jackson’s fans claim his insurance company negotiated the $25+ million dollar settlement and forced Jackson into cutting the deal. For one thing, the settlement is signed for the defense by (in addition to MJ) Larry Feldman, Johnnie Cochran and Howard Weitzman. All three were Jackson’s personal criminal defense attorneys during this period. Their signatures are on the document because it is their creation, their settlement. Lawyers don’t sign the work of other lawyers. Further, Jackson settled the day before he was scheduled to be deposed under oath in the Chandler’s civil suit. It would thus appear that Jackson wanted very badly to avoid having to invoke his 5th Amendment right to refuse to incriminate himself under oath the next day.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0616041jacko1.html

    • getyourfactsstraight says:

      Sorry, ‘RealityCheck’ but you are dead wrong. Michael Jackson was most likely not a pedophile. If you actually bothered to research the case and looked at ALL the facts, not just the few tid bits that may support your theory, and are a reasonable person you would come to the conclusion that MJ was most likely not a child molester.

      The 2005 trial was a bizarre spectacle that the DA should be ashamed of. They tried to use your line of reasoning by arguing that he chose his victims carefully and seduced them by showering them with gifts. Because their case was so weak on its own, they won a bid to have old child molestation accusations as evidence. This blew up in the prosecution’s face.

      They claimed MJ molested three other boys by inviting to Neverland and showering them and their parents with gifts. The prosecution’s shady witnesses claimed they saw MJ abusing Macaulay Culkin, Wade Robson, and Brett Barnes. All three boys themselves testified that MJ never did anything to them. So who’s lying they or those shady ex-employees who’d already sold stories to tabloids and tried to sue MJ. The prosecution was shameless. Even though Macaulay Culkin, who actually slept in the same bed with MJ on many occasions claimed that nothing happened, the prosecution kept pushing it by proposing maybe MJ did it while he was sleeping and he didn’t notice it. Say what!?! This shows the shear desperation of the prosecution. And makes me wonder what they must have put the hundreds of kids they interviewed through in the 1993 case to try to get them to corroborate Jordie Chandler’s story. They could convince only one kid, the son of a disgruntled former employee to make accusations. Jordie Chandler himself skipped the country so he wouldn’t have to testify in the 2005 trial.

      So if he’s a pedophile then where are all his victims? For twenty years MJ had befriended hundreds of kids and invited thousands, mostly disadvantaged, kids to Neverland. He was often seen in public with numerous boys. He acted the same way around them as he did around Jordie Chandler and showered them with expensive gifts and vacations. This would fit the grooming argueHow come after 12 years of investigating MJ ( they even set up a hotline for alleged victims to come foward) they could only find three boys to make accusations. In 20 years he decides to molest only 3. He was able to control his pedophile urges while repeatedly sleeping in bed with Macaulay Culkin and other boys (not including the 2005 accuser who admitted that MJ slept on the floor)and never touch them. This is ridiculous. Only the kids with con-artists for parents remember being sexually abused.

      As for your other claim that Jordie Chandler accurately described MJ’s penis, you don’t know that for a fact. According to MJ’s biographer there were some similarities and some key differences. Jordie Chandler said MJ was circumcised when he wasn’t, according to Tarraborelli. The prosecution never claimed otherwise and never said the description was an exact match. Instead were focusing on only ONE blemish, they claimed matches Jordie’s drawing. How could the kid predict the blemish? Maybe cause he knew MJ had Vitiligo and probably saw the discoloration on other parts of his body. Anyway he had a 50/50 chance of guessing right, circumcised or uncircumcised, and guessed wrong.

      The fact that the prosecution wanted to have it admitted doesn’t mean it was an exact match. They already showed their bad judgment in their attempt to prove prior bad acts and decision to call shady witnesses to the stand. Most importantly, if the pictures were strong evidence they would have asked to use it at the beginning of the trial, not at the end of the trial when they’d already embarrassed themselves and had nothing to loose. I suspect they just wanted to humiliate MJ as much as possible and convince the jury that he’s a freak who deserves to be convicted regardless of the evidence. They already had ‘Porn Day’ where they’d show the jury slides of all the pornographic images they found at Neverland. All of it was legal heterosexual porn. They couldn’t find any child porn. They probably wanted to shock and disgust the jury as much as possible. According to your own link the judge refused to allow it because it was more “prejudicial than probative”. Therefore, my suspicions are probably right.

      As for the payment=admission of guilt argument, get real. JC Penny settled Janet Arvizos (the mother of the 2005 accuser) civil suit for more than $100,000. Therefore, that must be an admission that their guards beat and sexually abused her in front of her son when they were caught shoplifting. Please! People act as though he made a secret agreement with the 1993 accuser not to testify against him in criminal court. Instead it was a legal settlement of the CIVIL suit brought by the accusers. The police were trying to put together a CRIMINAL case (notice 2 different court cases), while the accusers pursued the civil case with their lawyers. Once they got their settlement they refused to cooperate with the police investigation. The settlement was for the civil case, not the criminal case. It was Chandler’s decision to run after taking the money. MJ and JC Penny had millions of logical reasons why they would choose to settle instead of risking lengthy and expensive court cases. While, the Arvizos and Chandlers have no logical reasons to explain why they are so interested in civil cases instead of criminal cases when they accuse people of these terrible crimes. Instead of calling the cops first they call their lawyers.

      Notice a successful criminal conviction gaurantees money in civil court. So its not like they had to choose between money or justice, they could have gotten both. The law changed by 2003, so that the Arvizos couldn’t pull the same hit and run stunt as the Chandlers in 1993. They had to go through with the criminal case.

      • fgreen says:

        Well said….you were way more articulate than me

        Love you Michael forever and you are vindicated in the eyes of God and your true fans

      • Neelam says:

        I love the way you describe. I hope you open up some eyes here. luv u man.

      • getyourfactsstraight says:

        Silence from all the haters is golden.

      • Ambreen says:

        I think I love you. Seriously. No one can argue with that.

      • strawberry lady says:

        What about the naked picture of Jonathan Spence? And the $20 million payout? That just seems like too high of an amount of money for an innocent person……

      • Jim says:

        The objective was to get milions of dollars otherwise why target a celebrity? If you think that 20 million dollars is a lot of money after taxes and attorney’s fees then you do not understand how our legal system works because it would likely have cost MJ that much in defense. Maybe, there were some improprieties but there was no molestation as was alleged.

  10. pgAesthetics says:

    It’s all so hard to wrap my mind around. I’m not coming from the point of view of a sexual abuse victim, so I imagine it’s hard for some of you to understand why I and others feel this way.

  11. Ashtar says:

    If i’d dress glitzery like MJ, mutilated my face and collapsed my nose with endless plastic surgery so that i look half like zombie, half like woman/child, put heavy make-up, lipstick and eyeliner on, talked in a fake high kiddy voice, were a single with no girlfriend ever, and i’m a notorious liar, grabbed my penis all few seconds when dancing, am not interested in your daughter and children younger than 10 and older than 14, and requested your 12 y old son to spend the night in my bed, and when you object i offer you $ 1,000,000 .. would you let me do it .. well sure, i mean how can you dare thinking i might be a pedophile .. i mean i LOVE children .. especially 10-13 y olds with dark brown hair and eyes with divorced parents .. i mean hey I am the victim here of people who suspect disgusting things about me and they dont even know me really ..

    • getyourfactsstraight says:

      The world would be a much easier place if pedophiles actually did fit this description. Instead pedophiles look and act like normal people not like Michael Jackson. MJ fits the description of someone with serious emotional problems and probably mental illness who has been able to live his own world with enablers. This does not fit the profile of a pedophile.

  12. james says:

    hell yeah he molested kids shit every pedophle i know is a white man and that cracker micheal molested them end of period hes a smooth criminal who like to beat beat it and

  13. Mahira says:

    Guys please give respect to the dead.
    He was not a pedophile becuase none of that was ever proven. And as the question for Martin Bashir,Bashir has been subjected multiple times for journalism wrong doing.
    And thanks to getyourfactsstraight I hope your message gets through people.
    Michael Allah will do you justice on judgement day and you will be vindicated.

  14. me says:

    These ‘HE WAS A PEDOPHILE!!!!!!!!’ people believe what they WANT 2 believe. I’m ashamed 2 say I was 1 one of them, but I saw the light after read the GQ article ‘Was Micheal Jackson Framed?’ and I cried just thinking how wrong I was. I misunderstood him.

  15. HungryAnon says:

    Is it mean to suspect Micheal Jackson of being a pedophile?

    Let me ask you something.

    Is it mean to suspect someone of a crime even though it’s been _proven_ that they haven’t done it, but you choose to ignore it simply b/c you’ve already made up your mind and refuse to admit that you are wrong?

    Is it mean to suspect someone of a crime, b/c you’ve read and believed all of the tabloid sensationalism that you’ve read rather than taking the time to go and search for the truth yourself?

    I mean, seriously. Does getting older also mean that you get lazier about going out to find the truth in the sea of lies that we have to swim through everyday? Reality check hun. Newspapers and media outlets are known to outright lie and twist words for the sake of making money.

    There is countless proof of this whether it be in America or anywhere else in this world. This is what’s so great about the internet. You can take 5 seconds to find your own answers. Even then not everything is true on the net either so you have to read all of your sources and use critical thinking to come to your own conclusions.

  16. Deb says:

    Sure there were reasons to suspect Charles Manson of murder but he never committed any murders.Michael was a very naive man living in a different world than your average person.He was a sweetheart child who wouldnt hurt a flea so sit your hating self down.

  17. Lauren says:

    This is a disgusting article. Michael Jackson was not a child molester. People need to read the trial trnascripts. It was a joke! Every attorney out there laughed at this and the last case. Michael was innocent, he was so out there..honest about everything regarding children. Yeah right, Michael Frickin’ Jackson would molest a 13 year old kid with CANCER. PLEASE, people…read the trial transcripts, it was a joke. The family that accused him were nothing but money sucking low-lifes. Oh yeah, and MJ tried to kidnapped them too they couldn’t get off the ranch, all the time the mother was off at the spa getting her nails done on charging it to Michael. PLEASE!

  18. YouTards says:

    Hmmmm…..seems that unfortunately, retards abound in here. Well, the entirety of the ‘net at least.

    Ok ‘Tards, let’s try: You are stupid, me talk REAL slow, and use BASIC common logic. (And you would have to be a fuckin’ moron to NOT understand this next part). PedoBear Jackson-

    Me grown Man. Me invite children who are not mine to me bed. ME BED. Not down the hall, down the street, or next door. IN MY BED. OVERNIGHT (like FedEx). Remember, me grown! Me legal age Adult, people who sleep with me? NOT legal age!

    Ok, if you did not understand any of that paragraph, you are so fucking stupid your existence is nullified by your own stupidity. You actually SLOW DOWN evolution, and space/time. I mean, you should never have children, as PedoBears like Jackson would call you EXTREMELY stupid, and they are child molesters for Christ’s own sake.

    So, it is obvious that you people are MORE fucked up than PedoJacko, and I can only be glad you live nowhere near me, as you are proof that Humanity is too stupid to survive.

    Good thing too. I will remember your stupidity when your child is molested, and you call it “emotional”, and then charge the asshole that did it an hourly fee.

    Unlike you freaks, I wouldn’t whore MY kids to a known PedoFreak for whatever he could pay.

    Thank God Almighty Himself there are less of you, and more of me. And…FINALLY, one less PedoJacko too.
    The world is better to sweep the trash away, and to not keep it. It stinks less that way.

  19. HungryAnon says:

    @YouTards:

    Besides your entire post being completely inane and just as ‘retarded’ as the people you criticized AND the original author’s post, your points that were based on one statement do not support the argument that Michael was a pedo in anyway. All it does is to reiterate how ignorant people like you are and how there are too many of them in the world.

    Also, it’s posts like these that convince me that people really have no understanding of anything concerning pedophilia. People who commit crimes of any nature do not just go babbling about it to any Tom, Dick, and Harry, ESPECIALLY on TV when there’s a chance of there being 20+ million people watching. This does not happen. Pedos know that society heavily frowns upon what they are doing, which is why never speak about it, especially in PUBLIC. Pedos do more than just sleep in the same bed with children. They actually harm children, especially in a sexual manner. Most of us are arguing that there is NO proof that Michael did that.

    Either way, if Michael was an actual pedophile, we would have had more children coming out claiming that he had touched them rather than the suspicious two that came out with their money hungry parents. I mean, all those years and all those children @ Neverland and only two ‘victims’ came out, especially with the last ‘victim’ that came out AFTER the documentary? That seems too unlikely and nearly impossible. A good example is the Roman Catholic Church sex scandal. Were you even born then? You think only one kid came forward against those priests? Try about hundreds of them.

    If anything, Michael seemed to be stunted in terms of mental growth and guilty of being extremely naive. This can be traced to the fact that he was robbed of his time to ‘grow up’ like the rest of us, so it’s hard to look at his life in relation to ours. We can’t. It’s impossible for the normal layman.

    There’s only one guilty pedo recently, and his name is Roman Polanski. Unlike Michael he _was_ found guilty and ran away from the law with his legs in between his legs.

  20. Elf says:

    I think it is possible to be both a paedophile and a good person. The person just needs to be sexually distorted in some way, be it from abuse they themsleves have indured in the past, stigmatism, or simply not being able to relate to other adults, etc.

    Michael got very close to his younger male friends. He has said so himself a number of times.

    These were relatinships in which he had all the power.

    Can you imagine being 10 years old and having a friend who could make your wishes come true regardless of the cost. A friend who lived by their own rules. Had their own house. Had their own amusement park. Not only that, but they’re also a famous star.

    Add to that some other factors people have mentined. Coming from a bad home, Michael’s home would have been paradise. You trust him. You’ve shared secrets.

    Then one day he touches you where you know he shouldn’t. He doesn’t hurt you. He’s extremely gentle. He tells you nice things. He has given you some of your greatest desires and has never asked for a single thing in return.

    You know it’s wrong but you don’t know where it’s going, and you don’t know how it’s going t effect you in the future.

    He moves very slowly, to the point where you may even be unable to pinpoint an exact time when things went from being platonic to sexual.

    What do you do?

    Many kids get abused in this way. While not violent it can leave the worst scars as victims feel they let it happen. They feel it’s as much their fault as the paedophile. often victims never face it.

    • the truth says:

      Please research the cases and stop assuming things. You probably know nothing about the actual FACTS of the cases and yet you think you can make these assumptions.

      What you say makes sense, however that is not what the alleged victim claimed happened to him. The jury was faced with two competing versions of reality.

      The accuser not only claimed MJ touched him inapproriately, he and his family claimed MJ was the devil incarnate, who plied them with alcohol and porn before molesting them and also conspired to kidnap them and hold them prisoner at Neverland in order to force them to make a rebuttal video. They also claimed they saw MJ humping mannequin and licking their brother on the head like a cat. They had so many outlandish stories to tell the jury. (stories that were strikingly similar to the ones told in tabloids)

      Their kidnapping and conspiracy claims were easily disproven. Even if the molestation part of their story were true why did they feel the need to make up all that other stuff? Also, why couldn’t the alleged victim figure out when MJ molested him? He orignally claimed MJ molested him on days when MJ was not even at Neverland. He eventually had to go with AFTER the Bashir interview (when MJ was under investigation for molesting him) because MJ spent so little time with him at Neverland before it. Contrary to popular loar, he was not a ‘little boy’. He was 15 years old at the time of the trial and 13 during the alleged molestation.

      And no he did not sleep with MJ. He slept in the guest house (which he and his siblings trashed) with his family according to the testimony of witnesses at the trial and even implied in the Bashir interview if you paid attention. And no he did not have that close of a relationship with MJ like the 1993 accuser. He fumed with rage on the stand when explaining the way MJ ignored him when he was at Neverland and did not return his phone calls. While being pretty laid back when discussing his alleged molestation. The family did not think to come up with their stories until they realized they were being evicted from Neverland for good.

      The facts of the case speak for themselves if people bothered to research them. Read Aphrodite Jones’ Michael Jackson Conspiracy, and the GQ article ‘was MJ framed’ by Mary Fischer before passing judgement.

      • Elf says:

        I actually know very little about the Jackson cases – was never a fan, and tabloids aren’t that big of a thing where I live).

        But whenever I hear a Michael Jackson debate the main argument in his favour always seem to be ‘that he was to much of a nice, gentle, kind man to be able to do those horrid things.

        The next thing is to attack whoever said those things. In my mind it desn’t matter if he came frm the wrst family backgrund r the best.

        Maybe the boy is lying, maybe not. Maybe smething he is half lying. It could also be possible that Michael was grooming him, but the boy was able to break out of the cycle and tell his parents about the abuse. Maybe they then decided to really exaggerate things – milk it for everything they could. or a number of other scenarios could have occured

        What I’m really trying to say is there’s no way to really know for certain. To be honest, I don’t really care. There’s nothing I can do about it either way.

        But I do find it frightning that people can be so dismissive of some clear warning signs.

        In most cases of child abuse it appears to be the case that a child is abused by a trusted adult. The parents would never suspect that the adult involved could do something so damaging to their kid and that’s where the vulnerability comes in. They’re not watching out for warning signs.

  21. HungryAnon says:

    @Elf:

    You don’t have to be a fan of anyone to do a little research. Whether Michael Jackson was kind & gentle and/or straight, gay, or bi has nothing to do with the facts of the case.

    Once again, there was NO PROOF of him abusing those TWO kids and there’s NO PROOF of him abusing anyone else. Though, there is a ton of proof of the media twisting up stories and downright lying many, many times whether it be for Mr. Jackson or anyone else. There’s also proof of those two families lying their asses off for money.

    Real pedos don’t announce their crimes to the world and it isn’t as obvious. They also have a tendency to molest their own children. Real abuse is silent and not so easy to spot which is why I call bullshit on people who claim that Michael was guilty. Also, there would have been more than two victims, but there weren’t which is why this claim is bullshit. Most people here pointing the finger have no idea about actual pedos themselves.

  22. the truth says:

    Elf, again quit assuming things and actually research the case. Before you do that, you have no right to make inaccurate claims about the accusers.

    First of all, you don’t know what you are talking about when you claim that boy confessed to parent that a trusted adult molested them. Not true. Both boys were originally under a lot of pressure from parents, police, and media to say that MJ molested them. Evan Chandler in 1993 had to drug his son before he could get molestation stories out of him and it wasn’t until Arvizos were harrassed by the media for the Bashir interview and found out MJ was no longer going to support them, that they began making their molestation claims.

    These stories never come from a scared child shockingly confessing to parents that a trusted adult molested them, they come from boys who were under intense pressure from adults with financial and career motivations to come up with molestation stories.

  23. Alison says:

    Is it mean to suspect MJ was a pedophile? No, it is not. Is it fanciful and naive to believe he was innocent? No, it is not!

    Why not?

    Because the point is, we don’t KNOW! For every argument or apparent piece of evidence FOR the allegations, there is one AGAINST! If this was not the case, we wouldn’t all be sitting here debating it right now!

    Michael insisted on living his life shrouded in mystery. This had its fan appeal, sure, but it also meant that his life was ripe for speculation and misinterpretation. Michael complained vehemently about being misrepresented by the media, however, not only did he actively help construct some of his own, ultimately negative “wacko” PR (for eg; the story about wanting to buy the “Elephant Man’s” bones) but he did nothing to ensure the public that behind it all, was just an eccentric guy having a bit of fun – he carved his face to pieces (his nose was all but disintegrated in the end) and then openly lied about it; he surrounded himself with hundreds of children (mainly little boys) and let them sleep in his bed, and he quite literally BOUGHT his three children, apparently, because he couldn’t stand the idea of legitimate married life with an adult female!

    If people were disconcerted by Michael’s behaviour, then they had genuine reason to be! Furthermore, Michael couldn’t legitimately claim “the media” was behind every negative thought about him!

    Of course, none of this means he was actually a PEDOPHILE, which brings me back to my original point – that we simply don’t KNOW (and will never know!) what really went on! I have read the court transcripts at the Smoking Gun, the biography by Tarraborelli, The Michael Jackson Conspiracy by Aphrodite Jones, numerous blogs and watched numerous TV documentaries, and still, I don’t know if MJ was a pedophile or not! And again, the person to blame for this more than anyone is Michael himself! He was so determined, it seems, to stay in the spotlight for SOMETHING, that he was prepared to risk just about EVERYTHING! No adult NEEDS to have sleepovers with children (there are plenty of ways Michael could have supported and accommodated sick and needy children without actually having them in his bedroom); nobody NEEDS to have children to two different surrogate mothers, children that are apparently now, not even his biologically, and nobody ever NEEDS to carve their face to bits! Let’s face it, this bizarre crap could easily have been avoided, but it was Michael, the man with the fame, privilege, and billion dollar bank balance, who chose to do these things!

    It seems that when Michael was actively constructing his “bizarro” image in order to help ring in the fans and sell more records, he never stopped to think of the potentially devastating, real-world effects it could have on his life. He also never stopped to consider the disappointment that many of his fans may feel to think their idol may actually be some kind of sexual predator! He did nothing to reassure them that he was sound and sane – sure, he vehemently denied having sexually molested anyone, however, he never did explain, if not sex, what he WAS doing in bed with numerous 13-year old boys!?? I’m sure he just thought he could go on forever being a “mysterious”, billionaire, Peter Pan-figure who slept in an oxygen chamber (another story he helped invent!) unmarried and surrounded by little boys and it would never catch up with him! Unfortunately though, whether truly guilty of any crimes or not, Michael’s deliberate and/or helpless eccentricities would come back to bite him on the ass! And, all things considered, it’s amazing he kept the strong, supportive fan-base that he DID keep!

    Michael Jackson was acquitted in a court of law of all charges and died under sad and regrettable circumstances, so to call him horrible names like “sicko pedophile” is, in my opinion, highly inappropriate and disrespectful. However, is it wrong for an intelligent, rational personal to suspect this man may have been a pedophile? Of course not! And I agree with the author of this blog that to try and stifle such speculation is truly Orwellian. We are, after all, discussing children here – the most important of all creatures – and if they don’t deserve our honest and vigilant attention, then nobody does. What’s more, if Michael Jackson was really who he claimed to be, then he would have to agree!

    • HungryAnon says:

      @Allison:

      I will agree that Michael wasn’t perfect, because he was human. He had quite a bit of flaws. He was horribly naive, which may have been his biggest flaw of all. So even though Michael was going against societal norms, I blame the parents more than anything. Even if he is Michael Jackson you do not let your kids sleep w/other people that are not you. End of story there.

      Whether or not the man lied about the surgery done to his face or had some kind ‘bizarro life’ irrelevant. Focusing on it only makes it easier for the uneducated to point the finger @ that person is b/c they are ‘different.’ History has shown that anyone who is ‘different’ always suffer b/c it’s easier to blame them. As w/MJ.

      As for the original question, is it mean to suspect MJ of being a pedo, I still say yes. Why? Not b/c he’s MJ, but based on the fact that MJ’s actions DON’T match up with that of REAL PEDOPHILES.

      If MJ was truly a pedo, why aren’t there more victims? The only two victims that have come out have both been proven to be money chasers. These two victims came out in the span of 10 years. If Michael truly was a pedo in the truest sense of the word then he would have MORE victims, including younger nieces, nephews, cousins, AND even his own children. All of these kids would have come out by now, but none of them did. Also, pedos usually possess child porn, which is illegal. MJ had none of that, except for some book that they were trying to parade around as child porn, b/c it wasn’t.

      This is what I’m trying to say. If you have any working knowledge pedophiles rather basing it off irrational emotion then you will realize that MJ’s actions just don’t match up. It doesn’t. What pedo would want to go on camera and announce their crimes to the world? What criminal in general would want to do that? None. Pedos see children as sexual beings b/c they are attracted to them. Not having more victims and/or any porn of them is highly odd and unrealistic of an actual predator.

      MJ’s case was nothing like OJ’s murder case. In OJ’s case there was more than probable cause to suspect him of being the murderer. There was actual evidence and he already had a history of domestic abuse. In MJ’s case, there is no history of any prior acts that would give way to insinuating that he was willing to hurt children. NOTHING. This is why the suspicion is based on false means and ignorance.

      Personally, aside from the 1993 case, the fact that anyone would believe that family in the 2004-5 case is beyond me. Is anyone going to tell me, w/a straight face that they didn’t predict that child was going to suddenly cry molestation after that interview? The fact that case went to trial was a complete joke.

  24. Alison says:

    Hey Santi, I just realised I accidentally exposed my email by typing it in the website field by mistake! Is there any way you could remove it?

    Thanx!

  25. the truth says:

    Alison, what do you mean he bought his kids? People adopt and have children through artificial insemination everyday. They don’t endure anywhere near the venom that MJ has had to endure for some reason. Please explain why its okay for them but wrong for Michael Jackson?

    Also, how do you know he could have children the natural way?

  26. Alison says:

    @HungryAnon

    I’m not sure I would describe Michael as “horribly naive”. Regardless of how astute his advisers were, Michael himself still had to be pretty switched on in order to amass the fortune he did. He wasn’t too naive to make strategic career moves or to buy out the Beatles song catalog from right under Paul McCartney’s nose! And, as far as personal relationships were concerned, Michael came from a large, extended family and saw many examples of healthy, heterosexual life (regardless of any divorces, etc, that may have taken place). Not only was he one of nine children himself, but he grew up witnessing the family relationships between his brothers/sisters and their partners and children. There is just no WAY that Michael could have been under the delusion that an unmarried, adult male sleeping with unrelated kids on some isolated ranch was a perfectly ordinary thing to do! Perhaps he was a little naive in some ways, but not THAT naive! Michael chose this lifestyle KNOWING it was unusual and then basically bragged about it on international TV!

    Of course, the fact that he bragged about it probably makes it less likely he was actually a pedophile, after all, what pedophile in their right mind alerts the whole world to the fact that there are children in his bed?? Still, if you ask me, it shows that Michael was always chasing publicity, and was prepared to play with some pretty explosive subject-matter to ensure he got it!

    Why even raise the subject of sleeping arrangements with Martin Bashir in 2003? Was it really necessary to provide this information? The important thing was that Gavin Arviso was a very sick child and, apparently, Michael’s nurturing helped him get better. This is where the story should have ended, but thanks to Michael, it became a three-ring circus! You would think that after the hassles he endured in ’93 with Jordan Chandler, Michael would have been frightened to tempt any further pedophile accusations, but instead, he seemed to be deliberately invoking them!

    All this shows to me that MJ was, if nothing else, unstable, and possibly, extremely superficial. His whole life seemed to revolve around publicity; where were his real-world, adult relationships? We all know that he lost his childhood, but plenty of people have lost their childhood to war, famine, sexual abuse, etc, yet they still go on to form cohesive, regular relationships with other people. MJ always stated he was lonely and I feel deeply sorry for him in that, but it’s not like he didn’t have plenty of opportunities to remedy the situation! Sorry, but it seems to me he was just such a narcissist that he couldn’t bear to truly share his life with anyone else. He sat there and cried to Bashir that families were falling apart in the modern age, yet, in the next breath, bragged about the fact that he deliberately constructed a family with “no mother”!

    As far as “evidence” he may have been a pedophile .. sorry .. but there’s plenty! If you don’t call sleeping in bed with children, spending thousands of dollars on toys every year, building a ranch that is tailor-made to children’s desires, and refusing to have a legitimate relationship with an adult woman “evidence”, then what DO you consider evidence?? Of course, this stuff is largely circumstantial, but let’s not forget the fact that Michael WAS actually accused of specific acts of pedophilia and intoxication of minors in a court of law! Like I say, I don’t KNOW if he was guilty or not, but certainly, there was EVIDENCE!

    • HungryAnon says:

      Look, I’m not going to get trapped into discussing this man’s life. No one really knows and it’s all up to speculation, most of yours which is derived from tabloids.

      According to the FACTS of the 2005 case there was no concrete evidence pointing towards him to the crimes and too much pointing towards the fact the family was full of some shady characters who were known to swindle people out of money. The 1993 case ended up failing to get to criminal court due to the fact that the alleged victim, Jordan Chandler, refused the testify once his family received the money settled on in the CIVIL trial. This was before California changed the laws so that something like that could not happen again.

      However ‘crazy’ his life or anyone’s opinion on it has nothing to do with the FACTS.

      Also, anyone who would claim that building ‘Neverland’ is more than enough evidence of someone being a pedo needs to really take a good look at themselves and realize how completely ignorant they are. Before 1993 no one had even thought what Michael was doing since the 80s had any connotations being pedophiliac which goes to show how utterly ridiculous that statement is.

      You don’t just ‘become’ a pedophile in your thirties. It’s a sexual preference, something you deal w/your entire life, especially after puberty hits genius. If Michael was, in fact, using Neverland as a way to lure children, then there would be way more than 2 victims, especially in a 10 year period. More children would have come forward and revealed their claims of Michael molesting them either back in 1993 OR 2005 and in those years in between AND before/after. This would also include family members and his own kids.

      Since there were only two children to have come forward in Michael’s 50 years on this earth. One of which skipped out on the actual criminal trial and the other losing his case due to lack of sufficient evidence (in direct opposition to OJ, Robert Blake AND Roman Polanski ), then it is safe to assume that he was DID NOT touch those kids.

      Since the police did not find any traces of child pornography in his house or anywhere on him then it is safe to assume that he did NOT view children as being sexually attractive.

      That means that it’s safe to assume that he was NOT a pedophile.

      If, one day, we get some more people coming out and proving that he, in fact, that he did molest them or actual concrete evidence then it would be safe to assume that he probably was a pedophile. Until that happens, please do yourself a favor next time and do some actual research before you start sprouting uneducated drivel.

      Thanks.

  27. Alison says:

    @the truth

    When you say “people” adopt children (or conceive them by artificial means) every day, you mean couples .. right?

    Even if we are speaking of a gay or lesbian couple, we still mean a COUPLE – a pair of people who desire to create a FAMILY that they, for whatever reason, are unable to create through natural means??

    Yes?

    Well sorry, but this is different to a single guy with millions of dollars who pays his dermatologist’s assistant to bear two of his three children in exchange for a ranch!! Furthermore, he didn’t even use this skin nurse for all three children – we don’t even KNOW who the third mother is!

    Michael Jackson was not in a relationship with ANYONE, it seems, but himself, and rather than wishing to start a “family” with someone he loved (male or female), he desired to be a “daddy” in order to fulfill some need that lay within HIMSELF! Didn’t he tell Martin Bashir that he used to walk around cradling baby dolls?? He also told him that he wanted to be sure “the mother” (of Blanket) had a high IQ and that her “vision” was okay (???) And what was that business of grabbing the newborn still wrapped in its umbilical cord and racing out of the hospital?? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to convince people this was a sane, adult male?? Would any other person on planet earth get away with such ludicrous behaviour??

    Sorry, but it simply isn’t a legitimate argument to compare Michael Jackson with other couples who have adopted or used surrogates!

  28. Alison says:

    P.S. @ the truth

    Even if Michael COULDN’T conceive children the natural way, it still excuse him being so insanely narcissistic that he wanted the children he DID create all to himself, and not with a partner. This demonstrates that all he was thinking about was himself; he didn’t care that the children had two parents to guide and support them or, it seems, even that they knew for sure who they were biologically!

    And now that Michael is tragically gone, there is no other parent for the children to cling to. All they have is some dermatology nurse who barely knows them and a large, extended family who, while no doubt loving, they can’t even be sure they are in any way related to!

    P.P.S. Ask yourself how ridiculous it is that in the event of his death, this man left his children first, to his 80yr old mother, or failing that, to Diana Ross – some singer from the 1960’s! These children are human beings – not part of his “memorabilia” collection, for cripes sake!

    • HungryAnon says:

      “Ask yourself how ridiculous it is that in the event of his death, this man left his children first, to his 80yr old mother, or failing that, to Diana Ross – some singer from the 1960’s!”

      That’s kind of an ignorant thing to say. You have no idea what is going on his life to make those kind of assumptions and this is really not the place for them. So unless you have been w/Michael raising those kids and living his life w/him please refrain from making judgments since you have no idea what you’re talking about.

      Which seems to be a recurring theme w/you.

      • Alison says:

        I have never stated that I believe Michael Jackson to be a pedophile. All I have ever stated is that I don’t KNOW (and nobody knows) whether he was guilty or not, so it isn’t unreasonable to speculate that he MAY have been a pedophile, so long as that speculation doesn’t become foul-mouthed or abusive (he was, after all, acquitted of all charges at the 2005 trial). By the way, if Michael really WAS guilty of sexually molesting Jordan Chandler and Gavin Arviso (and I stress “if”), then strictly speaking, he wasn’t a “pedophile” but a “hebephile”: a pedophile prefers pre-pubescent children, whereas a hebephile is attracted to currently pubescent children (around 12-15). The incorrect usage of the term “pedophile” has always irked me about this case!

        Anyway, the last thing I want to do is run down Michael’s memory. I have been a fan of his all my life and my gut instinct was always that he was gentle and sweet and no kind of predator. However, he DID live his life in a very enigmatic way, so as a rational, realistic adult, I have to concede that it’s understandable people may have been suspicious of his motives (hence, the entire theme of this thread!). You simply can’t expect a forty year-old man can constantly bring unrelated children out to his isolated ranch for “sleepovers” and nobody is going to wonder what’s going on! Whether innocent or not, Michael was extremely unreasonable in this expectation. The fact that none of us really know what went on there (at Neverland) is already a problem. As an adult, particularly a male, when you close the doors at night, if you have children behind those doors you better be damn certain that every action of yours can be accounted for. Other people shouldn’t have to speculate .. “what went on?” .. “what didn’t go on?”, etc. It shouldn’t be a game – these are CHILDREN we are talking about, so there shouldn’t be any ambiguity about the situation!

        I want to say that I don’t believe this should apply to parents who sleep in bed with their OWN children. A lot of ppl have tried to use this practice as a way of justifying Michael’s actions, but any sane person can see that this is a ridiculous and unfair comparison! It’s one thing for a kid to snuggle up in bed at night with the people who gave birth to them; it’s quite another to be getting underneath the sheets with some pop-star you just met at a charity drive!

        The irony of all this is that Michael was so obsessed with protecting his OWN children, yet he expected that nobody would inquire into the emotional and physical well being of OTHER ppl’s children!

        It also bugs me the way the dodgy history of the Arviso family has been used as some kind of foolproof argument that Michael was innocent. So child molesters only molest kids from good backgrounds? The fact that the family had a history of trying to scam money certainly increases the chance they were simply trying to extort Michael, however, it isn’t a sure thing. Furthermore, just because they were dodgy, doesn’t mean by default that Michael WASN’T a molester!

        People also like to use the fact that Macaulay Culkin testified to Michael’s innocence as another “foolproof” argument, like all roads begin and end with Macaulay! Well can’t people stop to consider that maybe Michael chose his targets strategically, and that Macaulay Culkin (Corey Feldman, Ricky Schroder, et al) was too high-profile to risk molesting?

        Michael often used the argument that he didn’t INVITE children into his room, but that they followed him in. Again, is this meant to be some kind of foolproof justification for his actions? I wonder what would have happened if my 13 year-old girlfriends had ended up in MY father’s bed, for eg? How do you think the community would have reacted if my father had argued “Oh it’s okay. I didn’t invite them. They followed me in”??

        The Neverland ranch was equipped with a Ferris wheel, an electric train, arcade games, candy stalls, a movie cinema and plenty of guest rooms. There was every opportunity for MJ to accommodate sick and needy children without having to actually co-sleep with them (even if he WAS “on the floor” while the children were in the bed).

        It also annoys me that people tend to look at this as simply “guilty” or “innocent”. Obviously, if MJ was a molester then he was truly “guilty”, but even if he WASN’T actually a molester, he was still a negative influence on the lives of at least two children. As a result of his bragging about his sleeping arrangements to Martin Bashir, for eg, the Arviso children copped a lot of taunting at school for Gavin being a “fagot” and Michael’s “booty-buddy”, etc. Maybe Michael didn’t molest him, but he still wasn’t entirely “innocent” either! He also, according to a variety of different sources (inc. J. Randy Taraborelli), monopolised Jodie Chandler’s time to the point where it started to alienate the child from his friends and family. It is well documented that instead of attending his graduation dance for Junior High, Jordie spent the evening with Michal Jackson – a 34 year-old man! Again, even if no actual molestation took place, Michael was still obviously capable of negatively affecting the life of a minor.

        Finally, I am as entitled to my opinion in a public forum as anyone else. I have always maintained respect and objectivity when discussing Michael Jackson, and I appreciate that I didn’t know him personally. The info I have to work with is the same info that any other member of the public has, and I certainly don’t rely solely on tabloids! In this, I am no less “educated” then any other member of the public when it comes to Michael Jackson!

      • Alison says:

        “Real pedos don’t announce their crimes to the world and it isn’t as obvious. They also have a tendency to molest their own children.”

        Excuse me, but how do YOU know Michael didn’t molest his own children??

        I am NOT accusing him of this, merely wondering how you can be so sure about it??

  29. the truth says:

    Wow Alison. Just wow. And no I do not mean couples. Single people adopt children everyday for the same reasons as couples.

    http://life.familyeducation.com/adoption/nontraditional-families/45788.html

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2009/09/the-adoption-option-can-single-people-adopt.html

    You need to go after all these people with your venom too. Not just Michael Jackson, especially since he’s dead anyway.

    Also, why does anyone want to have children? They’re all narcisists, not just Michael Jackson, whether they’re in a relationship or single.

    World already has enough people in it anyway. Nobody NEEDS to bring anymore people into this world. Everybody’s selfish doing whats best for them. Most people have children due to their SELFISH desires.

    Another example of lynch mob mentality. Even the things that Michael Jackson does that aren’t so strange become bizarre in some people’s minds.

  30. the truth says:

    Also Alison, as far as Michael Jackson walking around with baby dolls in his hands. Thats actually how many WOMEN who can’t have kids feel too.

    Instead of demonstrating it that way, they tend to be those women at the mall going after strangers kids, saying things like ‘what a cute child, can I hold him’, patting pregnant women’s bellies, etc.

    How many times have we heard how a woman who can’t have kids feel her life ‘is not complete unless she has a child’. This is a very common obssession for some WOMEN.

    However, women get a pass for this type of behavior and are even encouraged because according to society all women should want children. Those that don’t are ‘strange’.. Imagine if it were a man at the mall acting the exact same way. That would freak people out and make people think pedophile.

    And here is the real root for most of MJ’s problems with children. Its because he’s a MAN. His obsession with children looks sinister. If it were a woman they’d say her supposed ‘maternal instincts’ are in overdrive. Men are supposed to be ‘masculine’ and should know to stay away from other people’s children.

    As for your other claim and the claim of this blog that he fits the profile of a pedophile. Actually you couldn’t be further from the truth. Thats one of the most dangerous (not just for MJ’s reputation but also for understanding pedophilia) lies that continue to be spread. This is a very interesting article that quotes the opinions of EXPERTS on pedophilia.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=116639&page=2

    Notice, how they say that MJ would be a very rare pedophile. He DOES NOT fit the profile. Most pedophiles are ‘normal’ (outwardly conform to societal norms) people. They don’t stand out. They tend to be in adult relationships and usually don’t play with toys or act childlike around children. Many actually enjoy their POWER over children and thats where they get their biggest rush from molesting kids.

    Also the funiest thing in that article is the experts claim that “children should not be sleeping with unrelated adults of the opposite gender. “It just opens the door for misunderstandings at best,” said Borack. ” Notice OPPOSITE GENDER!!!

    Back in 2005, when I didn’t know any details about the cases, I kinda fell for the media hoopla. I pointed out why did he only sleep with boys if it were really all that innocent. However, my mother who is from a different generation before there was a pervert under rock, pointed out the obvious to me thats even stated by experts in that article.

    The biggest lie is that MJ paid attention only to boys. Not true. He paid attention to girls too and not just girls who were the boys siblings. In Quincy Jones autobiography in 2001 he talked about MJ’s close (maybe obssessive) relationship with his daughter when MJ was 20 and the girl was 9. Quincy said they had a lot of things in common and really understood each other. He said his wife was shocked to discover that the girl made over 91 phone calls to MJ when he was on tour.

    Now imagine, if MJ were to continue with this sort of behavior around young girls. He’s lucky he was dealing with QJ’s daughter. Some father’s would have gotten their shot guns (especially today) and demanded to know whats going on. He would have really gotten into trouble a lot sooner back in the 1980s.

    Maybe he stopped doing that because he thought it looked bad. He considered himself a heterosexual male as demostrated by all the pornography the police found. Maybe he reasoned his very close relationships with boys was okay because they were the same gender and he didn’t consider himself to be gay.

  31. the truth says:

    Also, I wonder if a women admitted to having sleepovers with young girls (not boys), would she generate as much outrage as Michael Jackson. Women can be child molesters too. Yet, I suspect people would view it very differently. Clearly, there is a double standard.

    Basically, I think its an unfair double standard for men. Men today know they should be scared of other people’s kids. Even father’s know they’d better be careful with their affection. I don’t even think this development is neccesarily good for children or protects them from real molesters. I think it gives children an unhealthy fear of men.

    Alison claimed MJ would have known whats appropriate from his experiences with his brothers’ families and his family. However, she fails to acknowledge what is considered appropriate behavior around children has changed overtime, since MJ was younger (he shared a bed with brothers growing up) and even since the 1980s before MJ distanced himself from his brothers.

    In fact, men used to sleep with boys all the time. Boy scouts camping trips anyone? Nowadays boyscout leaders know to live in fear. And they know to keep their distance unless they want be accused of something inapproriate.

    The pedophile craze isn’t normal and hasn’t always been around. It didn’t really begin until the mid-1980s and was at its peak in the 1990s when MJ was first accused. After thriller, in mid 1980s, MJ lived in his own fantasy life. His biggest problem was probably that he didn’t change with the times. The society around him changed and he stayed the same.

  32. Evan Chandler is dead... says:

    Apparently Evan Chandler, the father of the Jordan Chandler the first accuser, just died of suicide.

    I hope that starting with this death, the truth begins to come out eventually.

    • pgAesthetics says:

      Is that truel? I can’t find anything about it online?

      • Evan Chandler is dead... says:

        http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1626509/20091118/jackson_michael.jhtml

        It seems one can be hard pressed to find this story. It’s as if no one wants to report it.

        Granted he was sick and had cancer (or some kind of illness), but he’s been sick for a while and why not have just ended it earlier? Seems that, I just learned this actually, that Jordan and Evan have been fighting over the money the entire time and got a restraining order against his dad since the man attacked him. So they settled on payments and the end of those payments were coming up.

        On ABC’s site, they’re trying to make it seem as though Evan Chandler led this sad life and we should be sorry for him. Umm…no. The family was already messed up and Evan seemed to be having a TON of problems already including financial ones. This was way before Michael even stepped into the picture.

    • pgAesthetics says:

      Thanks, ABC has it one their website.

  33. Evan Chandler is dead... says:

    “The info I have to work with is the same info that any other member of the public has, and I certainly don’t rely solely on tabloids! In this, I am no less “educated” then any other member of the public when it comes to Michael Jackson!”

    That’s the problem with you. You are educated more about Michael Jackson than with the real issue at hand and that is about people who are sexually attracted to minors. Even if I had used to wrong term, the problem is that Michael Jackson doesn’t fit the profile of someone who would commit a crime. Even if he was he would be the stupidest one of ALL time.

    Also, that whole ‘how do you know that he didn’t touch his kids.” Umm…how do you know if he did. What happened to being innocent until proven guilty? I mean, how do we know you aren’t a pedophile? Are we to assume that you aren’t simply because? You only suspect someone of something if there is reason to do so. Besides two kids w/sketchy parents there is NO ONE ELSE. That is it. I said that UNLESS someone else can prove that he, in fact, molested them, there is no reason to suspect that he molested anyone.

    I don’t care how many children he shared a bed with. That’s not illegal and just more of a reflection of an ignorant society that allows rights to be trampled over for the sake of giving themselves some false sense of security due to their ignorance.

    This century’s pedophile hunt is no different from the Salem Witch Hunts. I understand that there are people who, genuinely are molested and are victims, but there are a lot of people who are straight up LYING. Not every child tells the truth. Many children lie, especially when they have sketchy parents behind them.

    Also, even though I arguing about this man’s persoanl life, it is well known that we can not compare our lives to his. He grew up way differently from us, therefore we can not even compare. He did not have the same sensibilities as us, otherwise he would have been able to avoid this situation completely. I think that most of growing up came after that Martin Bashir interview and the 2005 trial.

  34. Alison says:

    @ the truth and Evan Chandler is dead:

    Throughout both of your replies to me there is one fundamental point that is missed, and that is, if we don’t KNOW what is going on (when children are alone with unrelated adults), then that in itself is already a problem!

    Like I say, it shouldn’t be a game. When children are involved, nobody should have to guess!

    This Michael Jackson thing was a turning point for our society. The question it made us ask was this: should we let children sleep with adults (or just spend inordinate amounts of time alone with them) simply because that adult gives us their “word” that nothing bad is happening? Or, should the mere fact that we don’t know for sure what is going on be enough of a threat that we err on the side of caution and demand the situation ends, (or at least, stay on high alert)?

    Personally, I go for door number two and hope the majority of society would too, although based on some of the comments here, I am not so hopeful!

    If we allowed Michael Jackson free reign to sleep with unrelated children (whether guilty of actual molestation or not) then we have to allow every other 40 year-old man who wants to, do the same thing. And the reason I say “man” is because one thing we know for sure is that child predators are far more likely to be males than females. If the man up the road decides he wants the local 13 yr-olds in his bed, then we won’t be able to stop him because he can simply give us his word that nothing is happening, i.e; the “Michael Jackson” clause!

    It’s ridiculous to argue that my logic is flawed because I don’t understand the “profile” of a pedophile! Even psychiatrists argue among themselves about such diagnoses, let alone leaving it to the discretion of the individual lay-person to make such complex psychological judgments! In other words, if someone asks if he can sleep with your children, you should make your decision based on whether or not you personally think he fits a certain profile .. is that right? Do you need to go to university for this, or can you make your judgments based on stuff you read on the net?? Wouldn’t it make more sense if there were just some basic safe-guards that all of society accepted, one being that if an adult male is frequently alone with children that are not his, then parents and other authorities need to be on high alert? Furthermore, did the psychiatrists who decided MJ didn’t meet the “profile” of a predator even MEET him, or was it a long-distance “diagnosis” based on hearsay and third party information?

    Like I say, I am an MJ fan but as much as I liked him, I can’t put the safety of children second to my love of a rock-star! Like I’ve said a gazillion times, even if he was INNOCENT the not KNOWING is still unacceptable!

    Finally, the reason for the pedophile “witch-hunt” is that in previous eras, people were far more naive about child molestation than they are today! These days we know that the local priest or scout master or “Santa” may well be a predator, whereas in previous times, people were far less aware .. hence .. why such an inordinate amount of crimes were committed! It’s truly a tragedy if an innocent man is labeled a predator (including Michael Jackson!) but you can’t blame people for their increasing suspicion!

  35. Alison says:

    P.S. Even if MJ suffered from ‘Peter Pan” syndrome and was simply an innocent man stuck in his childhood, the ppl around him still should have told him that his behaviour looked suspicious to the rest of society. Who knows .. maybe they did, but MJ was just too stubborn and self-absorbed to listen to them?

  36. Alison says:

    OMG, Evan Chandler committed suicide! Just verified it then! Was it guilt, or years of sadness??

    What a tragedy this Michael Jackson thing has turned out to be!

  37. shannon says:

    Alison, your comments were very articulate and right on the money. I feel EXACTLY the same way you do. I think many, many other people do too, but the majority of them aren’t internet posters.

    I think it is also helpful to read as many of the primary sources as possible, including the court documents that are available from both cases, plus the testimony transcripts from the Arviso trial.

    I was always a great admirer of MJ’s art and talent, but not blind to some of his questionable behavior with youngsters that first came to light even in the ’80s. There were murmmerings about it even at that time, when MJ was much younger and at the peak of his popularity and at the top of his game artistically. He had boys on him with him on some tours, including the BAD, Dangerous, and HIStory tours. Sometimes parents were there, and sometimes they weren’t. So many parents just dropped their sons off for unchaperoned weekends at Neverland too.

    Yes, the parents were negligent, and probably starstruck. Most all of the parents of the kids he got closest to were given extravagant gifts as well. I agree that it is bad parenting and social policy to take a man’s word for it, and to not question a Megastar (who admittedly refused to grow up or old), who wants to sleep with your child, and I agree that there should never be any question as to what is going on if they do. Another adult chaperone should have always been present.

    BTW, MJ claimed that the children always wanted to sleep with him and followed him into his sleeping quarters and begged to stay. I have no doubt that that was often true, since all the perks he provided, and lack of discipline too, were better than the most indulgent grandma could provide. But look at the court testimony from the Arviso trial:

    June Chandler testified under oath that MJ cried and begged for Jordan Chandler to sleep with him for at least 1/2 and hour, while Jordan Chandler quietly acquiesced to the histrionics. She testified that the door to the suite in Monaco was blockaded, while Jordie and MJ were inside alone, and she couldn’t get in. This led to a confrontation between June and MJ. These confrontations were usually followed by extravagant gifts from MJ to June, such as jewelry and shopping sprees. BTW, Monaco is where the first actual inappropriate sexual relations were alleged to have occurred in Jordan Chandler’s sworn affidavit that accompanied the civil complaint in 1993.

    There was enough inappropriate behavior to fill books, whether any molestation occurred or not, and, like you, I agree that there never should have been any doubt about it. There should have been someone else present to monitor the goings on. Moreover, he did harm the kids psychologically, and he was most definitely obsessed with Jordan Chandler in the several months he was with him.

    June Chandler testified – and it was not contradicted by the defense – that MJ spent 30 -40 nights alone with her son in his bedroom in her own home, and there was no other bed in his smallish room, and thus the two were sleeping together for nights at a time. She also said he did the same for about 2 weeks after a return from Monaco and other places like NYC, Disney World, Vegas, and Disneyland, which doesn’t include the Monaco trip and Neverland. Before Evan Chandler stepped in, June and her daughter and Jordan were all in plans to go on tour with MJ for the second leg of the Dangerous tour. Of course, MJ would be staying with Jordan, and June and her daughter in another suite.

    BTW, Evan Chandler was reportedly in the last very painful stages of cancer when he shot himself. I wonder if we will ever know the truth? Some of the boys who may have been violated too, may not have the psychological wherewithal to face it for many more years, if it happened, though I agree that they suffer anyway. They became like the bad boys in Pinnochio when they were with MJ! No discipline and every indulgence met. (Though it is easy to surmise he would not have let his “own” children indulge in such behavior with another man.)

    Even if these other boys ever do admit to any such things later on down the line, one thing you can be sure of is that a certain faction of MJ followers will never believe them and vilify them. I find such behavior by MJ fans astounding in itself. All of them surely would have let their sons sleep with MJ with no trepidation, apparently.

    No wonder he was able to continue with this inappropriate behavior, unchecked, if not unwarned. (Many of his close associates did warn him, but risked their jobs in doing so, just as they might have had they protested his pharmaceutical activities, unfortunately, since it appears too many Yes Men were a key component in his early and tragic death.

    I agree you can be a good person and a child molester of a certain type, if you take into consideration that the person who is perpetrating means well, and means to be loving, but is mentally and socially unstable and does not fully appreciate the consequences of their actions due to certain pathologies.

    • Suzan R says:

      You’re a complete uninformed ignorant moron. Read the facts, here ya go, every damn world. Evan approached MJ directly asking for $20M, Jackson told him to f@ck off. If Jackson had anything to ‘hide’, sweep under the rug, he would have paid Chandler up front, period…$20M to him was simple change! He knew he had nothing to hide and filed a motion for a CRIMINAL TRIAL, no one would prosecute him or testify, hum!

      Here are the entire legal proceedings. Read them, all of them before you spew your ignorance all over.

      If MJ had anything to hide, he would have paid upfront. Before, before:

      His entire house was searched and destroyed.

      His entire Dangerous Tour cancelled.

      His name and reputation riped apart.

      Every inch of his d@ck having to be inspected.

      Read the facts!

      Jackson was the WINNER here, he paid nothing, insurance company did (and they would have dropped him in a minute if they thought he did this). Chandlers’ recanted ALL allegations against him, MJ admitted NO wrong doing. Oh, Jordan/family could have testified against MJ at trial, they did not, just took the money and ran, ran, ran. Anyone touches my kid, me, I’m first in line to testify. Ah, know why they wouldn’t show up, because MEZZ had evidence that Jordan already admitted to lying.

      You should read the facts, you sound completely ridiculous. How dare you accuse a man who was acquitted of all charges. Even the Chandler thing, brought before the grand jury 3 times, they would not prosecute because NO EVIDENCE!

      Nasty mouth you are, plain and simple. SHAME ON YOU!
      Do you know how many LIVES Michael Jackson saved, do you? Evan Chandler was mentally ill and did not take care of his illness, he hearly killed Jordan, drugged him, hit him in the head with a dumb-bell weight, there was a protective order against him and he shot his brains out and died all alone, no one went to any funeral or anything for him. READ THE FACTS!

      http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html

      http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/the-settlement-did-jackson-admit-to-any-wrongdoing/

      http://site2.mjeol.com/video/video-2005-mesereau-had-witnesses-ready-to-testify-against-chandler.html

      http://mjjr.net/content/mjcase/main.html

  38. Evan Chandler is dead... says:

    @shannon:

    Reading your post was pretty painful.

    1. The fact that anyone would cite June Chandler, of ALL people, as a completely credible source needs to get their brains checked. It is a known fact that her claim about MJ trying to abduct her and family even though he bought them round trip tickets or how there never seemed to be any clocks in Neverland even though he bought the kid a watch AND there was a huge one in front of the house were laughable, at best. (Not to mention that there is always a clock flashing on the laptop that the boys claimed that Michael showed them porn on on that generic ass site. Seeing how Michael was an avid porn fan there is no way he would’ve been on a site like that, especially since there’s nothing but pop-ups, spam, and malware on anything that would be titled pussy.com)

    2. You sound as if you are trying to justify the actions of all those parents. Well, don’t. They are just as guilty of leaving their children alone with someone they didn’t know. Starstruck or not, the point is you shouldn’t trust your kids with anyone besides yourself. That’s why these parents are full of shit, ESPECIALLY the ones from the 2005 case. They trusted Michael and felt that they knew him enough to leave their kids alone with him and I’m sure that he trusted them also, which is why I called him naive in his way of thinking.

    3. No matter what you may speculate, it will not change the FACTS. The FACTS are that so far, there are only 2 supposed victims. Only 2 out of the many children he was around. The first accuser took the settlement money from the civil case and fled, never looking back. The second one claimed that the molestation took place only AFTER the documentary aired. The same documentary in which the son was made a laughingstock out of. They were also made only AFTER Michael tried to cut them loose financially and they weren’t having that.

    It’s not rare that people falsely claim rape or molestation in trying to get revenge on someone. I don’t see why this seems to be such a foreign concept to you guys.

    I’ll say it again, and again if I have to. Mj does not fit the profile of a pedophile. Where are the rest of the victims and why haven’t they stepped forward already? Where is the child porn that they searched his house top to bottom for? Nowhere. Give me a break you guys.

    I find it ironic that you claim this crap:
    “Even if these other boys ever do admit to any such things later on down the line, one thing you can be sure of is that a certain faction of MJ followers will never believe them and vilify them. I find such behavior by MJ fans astounding in itself. All of them surely would have let their sons sleep with MJ with no trepidation, apparently.”

    What about the fact that there is more evidence that supports Michael rather than the accusers and people who think like you just won’t accept it? People have been listing links here and you haven’t even bothered to read it. These links come from actual and genuine research into BOTH allegations as opposed to the garbage that the media tells you so that you will buy into their lies. I mean, seriously, come on. Is it too much to read beyond the headlines?

    So, back to the original question: Is it mean to suspect that Michael may have been a pedophile?

    Until other victims come out of the woodwork that can PROVE that he molested them, including family members, or they find actual child porn somewhere in his possessions then there is nothing to suspect. I do agree that he shouldn’t have been sleeping anywhere near those kids or even hung out w/them w/o their parents around. I don’t agree with him being a pedo though, especially when’s there is an entire lack of any evidence to support this claim.

    • Evan Chandler is dead... says:

      I meant Janet Arviso.

      Also, the FBI file for MJ came out yesterday. There’s nothing new in terms of info as I remember most of those allegations from 1993 & 2005, but it just proved what some of us have been saying all along in terms of the child molestation case.

      The FBI went on a worldwide search looking for evidence and found NONE to charge him with and abandoned the case. I find it funny that Michael even mentioned that Sneddon was working with the government(or FBI) to try and bring him down in one of his songs, but it’s because of his global status that they did so. (I believe.)

      Either way, if anyone comes here claiming that the FBI files prove anything, we can simply chalk it up to said persons being completely ignorant on the matter as they did not take the time to actually read the documents (or do a little research) before they come here and begin mouthing off baseless claims. As is the case with some of the commentators here.

  39. Alison says:

    Shannon, I too agree with everything YOU have said, and what’s more, am astounded that many people still don’t get the point! The point is this – regardless of the maddening in’s and out’s of the allegations (i.e; was it really molestation? Was it just extortion? Was it the “Peter Pan” syndrome, etc?) the fact is, children were being harmed by Michael Jackson’s actions, therefore, the situation needed to end .. simple! Personally, I don’t see why things had to be complicated beyond that point. And in fact, if people (i.e; the parents of the minors) had taken this attitude right from the start, the opportunity to harm these youngsters would never have arisen, including (and most importantly) if sexual molestation DID take place.

    The only thing I can think is maybe some of these parents were taking the gamble that Jackson WAS a molester and that a nice “settlement” may be in store for them, otherwise, how do you explain such gross negligence in allowing your 12 yr-old son to regularly sleep un-checked with a 36 yr-old man?

    It really doesn’t matter what excuses people come up with .. “Evan Chandler was crazy” … “Janet Arviso was a scammer”, blah blah, the fact is, at some point Michael Jackson was left alone in bed (and in other places) with minors, and furthermore, he actively sought to ensure that these situations re-occurred. This is all you need to know and all you would have needed as a parent to deem the situation unacceptable! The fact that it then descended into the murky realms of molestation allegations is only testimony to the parents negligence – it should never have gotten to this stage.

    In a way, this isn’t even about Michael Jackson personally: it’s about society as a whole – it’s attitudes, standards and beliefs. What are we saying to our children by allowing a situation to occur where nobody knows for sure if hundreds (maybe thousands?) of kids were molested by the same man? How safe are our kids meant to feel with us as “guardians” if adults (including parents) are prepared to get online and argue that it’s okay for certain men to sleep with other ppls children? It never ceases to amaze me how the rabid MJ fans will reverently cite the singer’s self-indulgent love of children, while all the time dismissing the logical and reality-based child welfare concerns of others.

    The children who came into MJ’s life were exposed to an unrealistic and often chaotic environment, and in the case of Jordan and Gavin, to public and media scrutiny (incl. public ridicule) that they would never have experienced otherwise. All the adults were to blame; the parents AND Michael Jackson, for this irreversible damage done to the children’s lives, regardless of any actual molestation.

    I want to say though that while I (obviously) believe the parents should have taken more preventative measures to ensure their children’s safety, I am nevertheless aware that pedophiles have very well-honed methods of working their way into people’s families, and whether or not Jackson was actually a pedophile, he certainly used a lot of the same techniques (for eg; buying piles of toys for the children; expensive gifts and holidays for the parents; convincing the children that the parents were being “unfair” if they questioned the sleeping arrangements, etc). Perhaps as a society another thing we can do is be more aware of these predator techniques, as well as of the parental slackness/naivete that aids and abets them?

    Even if Michael himself was innocent of sexual wrongdoing there are still lessons that can be learned from his story, and again .. that is the point!

    • Evan Chandler is dead... says:

      @Allison:

      I am convinced that you are not really reading anything being written here or at what anyone else is saying. You rather spend more time typing your ignorant opinions than anything else.

      As I’ve said before while I don’t condone his actions, do I think that they’ve necessarily harmed the children? No. Sleeping in the same bed as an adult, especially one you trust is not illegal or a ‘wrong’ thing. It is a decision up to the parents of the child and only their decision. As one poster stated, back in the days, what Micheal did wasn’t considered ‘pedo.’ This is true.

      Pedos don’t lurk in every corner and parents need to stop thinking that because they are turning their children into wussies and doing more harm than good. What people don’t realize is that pedos are a lot closer to home, husbands, wives, sisters, brothers, grandparents, and etc., and their behavior isn’t that obvious to point out otherwise they would be easier to catch. It’s safer to teach your kids how to speak up for themselves and to tell them the correct names for their genitalia so they don’t feel that you are not able to handle the fact that they are being molested.

      With this mindset, it’s getting harder for a man to be seen in public with his kids. I have read many articles where fathers had their kids taken away from them because someone suspected them of being a pedo b/c they were walking with them in the park or so. Abuse happens behind closed doors and not in public for it to be seen by everyone. Also, just because a child screams ‘rape’ doesn’t automatically make the kid right either. There are a lot of children who lie out there as was the case with Michael Jackson and people I have known, personally.

      If Micheal had, really, molested those kids, then I would agree that what he did harmed them, but the only ones who harmed those kids were their parents, especially Evan Chandler whose own son got a restraining order against him.

      So, to conclude, was MJ right to share his bed with kids that weren’t his own? Imo, no. Did the fact that he did harm the children in any way? No. Did he go against societal norms? Yes.

      Is Allison right in claiming that the techniques employed by MJ are common techniques used by pedos even though it is generally known fact that those are not generally common techniques used by pedos? No.

      If anyone is using MJ as an example of what they should look out for in a pedo, PLEASE STOP, because you are doing you and your child way more harm than you will ever know. Look up Gary Glitter for a MUCH better example.

      Also, I want to remind you that the point of this blog is whether or not it’s mean to suspect MJ of being a pedo. As we’ve been saying, while his actions may have went against societal norms, it doesn’t make him a pedo, especially since there hasn’t been any evidence to support such claims except for the fact that he let kids sleep in his bed. That’s not enough evidence to claim that someone is a pedo and people need to take the time to actually educate themselves instead of just eating whatever the media/tabloids feed them to make a quick buck off of them.

      Don’t lose sight of the topic at hand please.

    • the truth says:

      I found this post interesting. You claim that its not really about Michael Jackson, its about protecting children from dangerous situations regardless of whether or not molestation occured.

      However, lets get real. It was never about the children, for the media, the police, and even most MJ-haters who go around making sick explicit jokes about MJ and children. If you were around in 2003-2005, you should remember that child molestation was ‘great entertainment’. Comedians made jokes about every night and even the DA cracked jokes about ‘wako jacko’ at his press conference anouncing MJ’s arrest (sick). The purpose of these allegations and apparently these investigations was always to vilinize and harass MJ. It was never to protect children. It was all about humiliating MJ.

      This lack of concern for the children is best demonstrated by the pass that these boys’ parents received from the authorities and most of the media in 2003 and 1993. We know for a fact that Evan Chandler tried to ‘negotiate’ with Michael Jackson’s lawyers for 20 million dollars before the accusations became public. No one, not even Raymond Chandler or Maureen Orth disputes this fact. The police knew about this in 1993 and MJ’s lawyers accused him of extortion because of this.

      Now, if the police believed MJ molested Jordan Chandler and knows that his father was secretly trying to strike deal with the pedophile who molested his son, why didn’t they charge the father with a crime? I think this is child prostitution (if the allegations were true). The evidence that these parents were scammers out for civil settlements is so overwhelming that even those who supsect MJ is pedophile cannot defend these parents. You even admit this. Yet, no investigation of these parents were ever conducted and no charges were ever filed against these parents.

      Why in the world would child protective services allow a man who apparently pimped his son to a pedophile (if the charges were true) keep custody of the child after the settlement was made? The same thing goes for Janet Arvizo. Maureen Orth actually defends these parents in her smears against MJ. Tom Sneddon (DA) acted as though he were Janet Arvizo’s lawyer during the trial. Why didn’t Sneddon charge these parents with crimes or even consider charges. Most likely because it was never about protecting children from MJ it was just a smear campaign against MJ. If people ever cared about the children, than serious efforts should have been made to at least take custody away from those boys parents. If they can pimp their kids out the Michael Jackson (that is the only other explanation if they are not con-artists), how do we know they aren’t pimping their kids to other pedophiles (if its true MJ really is a pedophile)? The fact that no one, not even alleged ‘protectors of the children’ has ever considered this possibilty is very telling.

      And the rest of your post about the danger of an adult man spending time alone with other people’s children is nonsense. And you do not need a bed to molest a child. You just need to be alone with them. People leave unrelated adult males alone with their kids all the time. Their kid can be molested whether or not a bed is involved. It is up to the parents to decide whether they can trust the adult male with their children, not up to ‘society’ to decree that adult males cannot be left alone with other people’s children because they might be child molesters. Fact of the matter, many parents (not just the accusers) trusted MJ enough to leave their kids alone with him. Many parents along with their children defended MJ in 1993 and in 2004.

  40. Alison says:

    Sorry, but I just wanted to add how disturbed I am by the glee that some of the MJ fans seem to be taking in Evan Chandler’s recent suicide! Is this what we have reverted to; a gladiatorial, eye-for-an-eye society? If you read about the case in depth you will see that everyone involved was a victim, in one way or another, and the fact that this man has now taken his own life is no cause for celebration or trying to prove you backed the “right” side!

    • Evan Chandler is dead... says:

      Society’s always been eye for eye. Why is this such a surprise?

      Also, Evan caused all his own problems with his son and family. While I do question when does someone stop being a victim, I will acknowledge that Evan is responsible for Evan’s actions which weren’t remotely innocent at all. I mean, even after getting the $20 million settlement for the civil suit he sued MJ AGAIN for more money so he can make a movie.

      Now he deserves sympathy? For what? Give me a break.

      • the truth says:

        No way Allison. Now you are scaring me. Evan is definitely not a victim. As I’ve stated before, if son’s allegations were true and if the tales in Raymond Chandler’s book (Ray claims Evan witnessed MJ groping his son’s genitals and continued to allow MJ to sleep with his son, didn’t call the cops, tried to get money from MJ) are true, than Evan pimped his son out to MJ. He was a disgusting man no matter how you look at it. He was either an extortionist or a pimp.

  41. Alison says:

    @ Evan Chandler is Dead

    Sorry, but you are the one losing sight of the topic at hand. How have you argued that it is (or isn’t) mean to suspect Michael was a pedophile? All you’ve done is talk in circles; on the one hand saying Michael was “wrong” to sleep with the children, but on the other hand saying that he doesn’t fit the profile of a pedophile??

    So in your opinion, is it “mean” to supect him .. or not?

    If you read my posts, especially my earlier ones, you’ll see I CLEARLY argue that while I don’t necessarily believe he WAS a pedophile, I nevertheless don’t think it is mean for people to suspect as much (this is basically the same opinion as the author of this thread, by the way). I think that given the circumstances, it is perfectly understandable that a rational, intelligent adult might suspect Michael Jackson was guilty of some form of molestation. I then go on to make the more general point that MJ’s story can teach us important lessons as a society, whether he himself was actually a pedophile or not.

    Okay? So if that isn’t clear, I strongly suggest you read my posts again!

    Now, back to topic – once again, you have missed the point! Even if Michael’s sleeping in the same bed as these children DIDN’T harm them (as you seem to believe) what DID harm them is the media scrutiny and public ridicule that resulted from this action. When I say the children were “harmed”, this is what I mean. I don’t mean they were harmed because of the physical act of sharing a bed with MJ (although obviously I would agree they were harmed if molestation actually occurred). To me, the “harm” is the fact that regardless of any “settlements” received, the children involved in these scandals will be forever tainted; either labeled “homo’s” by other men who think they really did sleep with Michael, or “demons” by people who think they made the whole thing up. No-one stops and thinks that either way, the children are still the victims – if Michael DID molest them, then they are the victims of serious child abuse; if he DIDN’T (and the whole thing was made up), then they are the victims of unscrupulous parents who used them as bait for their own nefarious ends, and a self-indulgent rock-star who didn’t stop to think (or didn’t care) how his actions would possibly be interpreted by society.

    Now, as far as “suspecting there’s a pedo around every corner”, just let me make it clear that while I am not naive about the huge number of pedophiles out there, I am nevertheless not so paranoid that I see them falling out of trees! I agree there has been hysteria over pedophilia in recent times and it bothers me greatly to think innocent men may have been labeled as criminals, however, what YOU need to acknowledge is that this hysteria would not even EXIST if there hadn’t been so many LEGITIMATE cases of pedophilia. Let’s face it .. the reason there wasn’t this hysteria in days gone by is because ppl were uninformed – it’s that simple! If people had known back then like we do now that local priests, scout-leaders, Santa Clauses, party clowns, etc, may well be child predators, I’m sure they would have been hysterical too!

    As far as fathers having their kids taken off them after being “suspected of pedophilia” when someone saw them “walking with their children in the park”, I’m not sure what articles (of which you said there were “many”?) you read about this, but I suspect that if the articles exist, THEY appeal to hysteria! I find it hard to believe any (western) government would condone taking a man’s child away just because of one person’s opinion about a family trip to the park! Furthermore, I think these stories are designed by conservative factions to scare Johnny Public into thinking there’s a PC plot “around every corner”! Being hysterical over things like “pedophile witch-hunting” takes the focus off more reality-based issues; like health-care re-form, funding for eduction, and ongoing wars.

    Finally, as far as Evan Chandler goes, I suspect there was a decent helping of greed motivating the guy, however, everything I have read on this Jordy/Michael thing suggests strongly that he was pushed into some kind of extreme action (i.e; demanding money) after Michael refused to clarify the nature of his relationship with his son! It simply isn’t true that Evan demanded money from Michael right from the get-go! In fact, at first, both June AND Evan Chandler were encouraging of their son’s relationship with Michael, and in fact, even offered to put an extension on their house so Michael could come and live with them (an offer which Michael took seriously and even had an architect draw up a plan for!). It wasn’t until Michael INSISTED on being left alone with Jordy (to which there are many witnesses), including being allowed to sleep alone with him, that Evan began to get aggravated and demand answers. When Michael refused to give definitive answers to his questions (Evan actually asked MJ outright if he and Jordy were having sex) Evan became increasingly frustrated and eventually, bereft of his senses, started making extortion threats. Now, if the sex abuse allegations were knowingly made-up, then there is no excuse for it and Evan was unthinkably reckless, however, you can’t help but wonder how far the guy was pushed and why he tried so many OTHER things BEFORE he made the allegations (for eg; asking Michael to simply CLARIFY the relationship and then asking that, if he wouldn’t clarify it, would he at least take a lie-detector test to confirm there hadn’t been any sex – which MJ refused to do!).

    • the truth says:

      Allison. I wonder if you’ve read Raymond Chandler’s book ‘All That Glitters’ and Geraldine Hughes book Redemption.

      It seems you do not understand the 1993 case. If believe MJ is guilty and you read Raymond Chandler’s book their is no way you can defend this father.

      Also, your excuse that the father started making extortion threats against MJ because he did not know what to do about his son’s molestation is ludicrous. Call 911!!!! WTF?!? Get the police involved. At the very least REMOVE HIS SON FROM MJ’S CUSTODY SO MJ WILL NO LONGER HAVE THE OPPURTUNITY TO MOLEST HIS SON.

      Geraldine Hughes was a legal secretary to Barry Rothman. She witnessed the way Evan and his lawyer gamed the system in order to extort money from MJ. When asked by Bill O’reilly what piece of evidence most convinces her of MJ’s innocence she points to the child custody hearings that Evan Chandler went to in order to receive full custody of his son. Even though he had been accusing MJ of molesting his son for months and had been negotiating with MJ’s lawyers for a settlement, Evan did not mention his suspicion that his son was being molested. The judge gave custody of the boy to June Chandler.

      If Evan suspected his son was being molested all he had to do was voice those suspicions at the custody hearing and he would have atomatically been granted custody until the allegations were investigated. Courts take child molestation accusations very seriously. However, Evan chose not to mention it in court. He was ordered to give custody back to June. If you want to believe MJ molested Jordie Chandler, than their is no way you can defend Evan Chandler.

      • Alison says:

        @ the truth

        No I haven’t read those authors yet but I intend to. I’m sure that Evan Chandler had dollar signs in his eyes and used his son’s relationship with MJ opportunistically, however, that still doesn’t mean that at base he didn’t have real concern that Michael was molesting his son. I thought Evan Chandler went way too far and did the wrong thing. If he wanted “justice” he should have, like you say, gone to the police or reported his concerns at the custody hearing. But rather than justice, I think he wanted revenge, and you do have to wonder what would bring that out in a person. Remember, Michael met the Chandler family by chance when his car broke down on a LA highway – it’s not like Evan set the whole relationship up from word go. I think he liked Michael at first and had no designs on him, but when things got out of control between Michael and his son, Evan’s revenge instincts kicked in.

      • the truth says:

        Thats not what I was arguing. Its MORE than him just having dollar signs in his eyes. Its about allowing a man who he believed was molesting his son to CONTINUE molesting his son in the hopes that he could get money out of this man. This is child prostitution. There is no defense for this.

  42. pauline says:

    The fact that the SBPD, LAPD, DCFS AND the FBI spend years investigating Michael Jackson, were trying their utmost to find anything on him, even going so far as to use tabloid articles as sources, travelling all over the world to try and find possible “victims”, searching his house, his computers, his books, even his body, interviewing hundreds of children who had spent time with him, and after all that, they still couldn’t find anything to say Michael Jackson was a child molester. When they finally managed to find a family willing to testify against him, their stories and theories were so ridiculous and desperate that it was, I hate to say it… funny. You almost felt pity for the prosecutions side. They spend years going after this man, collecting whatever evidence they could find, putting more resources and money into this case than they do with serial killers, and this is the best they could come up with?! False imprisonment? Conspiracy? Like a kidnapping pedophile is going to let their victims take off with his credit cards, roam around the streets, get leg waxes, and visit their civil lawyers. And people sit and wonder why a jury acquitted this man and found him not guilty of all counts. LOL.

  43. Alison says:

    @ the truth

    I agree that the media was often very biased in its reporting of the Michael Jackson molestation cases. However, what I think most people don’t realise is just how much MJ contributed to his own negative publicity. Back in the Thriller period, MJ was one of the most, (if not THE most) beloved stars on planet earth. I was a kid in those days and an MJ fan into the bargain, and I remember how he was presented in the (Australian and American) media. All of it was positive: about his incredible music; his “romance” with Brooke Sheilds; his humanitarianism; his adherence to a strict Jehovah’s Witness lifestyle, and of course, his love of animals and children. It wasn’t until the release of BAD and the unveiling of the “new” Michael Jackson that things started to get ugly for him. Keep in mind that the stories about him sleeping in an oxygen chamber and trying to buy the “elephant man’s” bones were planted by MICHAEL and his own PR ppl in order to stir up sensationalism (read Tarraborreli’s Magic and Madness). If the molestation allegations had been made back in 1983, no media outlet worth their salt would have DARED tried spinning it that Michael was guilty, however, by 1993 (at the time of the first allegation) he had become “Wacko Jacko” and almost all of this new, crazy image was his own doing.
    Interestingly though, TV phone in’s and surveys done in the USA in ’93 showed the majority of ppl were still behind MJ and thought he was innocent (you can easily source this history with a google search), despite what the media may have been trying to say. In other words, ppl may have thought he was a bit “wacko”, but they didn’t actually believe he was a criminal. It wasn’t until the second lot of allegations in 2003 that the public turned on MJ and hence, the media let loose with its bias (and now, after his death, the public have turned back in his favour again).

    As far as the rest of your comments are concerned – just because the parents may also have been at fault here doesn’t necessarily exonerate Michael Jackson from all wrongdoing. Like I said, it is my opinion that ALL the adults here were to blame (whether they were liars or just plain pimps), and this is what we as a society need to recognise: Children are not toys to play games with, either by negligent or greedy parents, or by self-indulgent rock stars. Frankly, I can’t believe there are ppl coming on the internet (and other places) defending Michael Jackson’s actions because they think he personally was innocent. Obviously, if he was wrongly accused of child molestation then that is a tragedy, but it still doesn’t mean the PRACTICE of what he did was correct, and this is what I am astounded that ppl are defending! No matter what, no grown man should be spending inordinate amounts of time alone with other ppls children, even if he ISN’T molesting them. If we as a society say it’s okay for one man to do it, then that makes it okay for any man to do it, and nobody is smart enough to tell which man will be a sex-criminal and which will not. Statistics show that children are far more likely to be molested by an adult male unrelated to them but known to the family (Obviously, some children are molested by men they are blood related to as well). Right now sitting here, I can think of several famous cases where Australian children have been molested, raped and/or killed by men that were family “friends” (one of the most famous cases is that of Samantha Knight). Before you start yelling at the screen, I am NOT calling Michael Jackson a potential child-killer. Like I say, I’m not even sure he was a molester. I am merely drawing attention to the statistics, and trying to point out that it is incredibly dangerous to use the MJ case to set a precedent that it’s okay for “some” men to spend chronic amounts of time alone with other ppls children – whether in bed or at the local park.

    • the truth says:

      “Statistics show that children are far more likely to be molested by an adult male unrelated to them but known to the family”

      I’m not sure if this is true. I think related adult males are just as likely if not more likely to molest children than unrelated males. We cannot be sure that adult males related to children are not a threat. This reminds me of an instance in the court transcripts where one of the prosecutors was grilling Wade Robson for sharing a bed with Michael Jackson. They asked him suggestively if he had ever ‘slept with’ any other adult males. He answered that he had done the same with his father AND his uncle. The prosecutor responded that those instances were okay because those men were related to him. Now I’ll excuse the father, but the uncle? How can ‘we as a society’ be so sure that the uncle is ‘safe’? What if it were a cousin, second cousin, etc? Are those instances safe because they are related to the children? What about step-fathers? Are they more dangerous than uncles and cousins?

      This is a very complicated issue and it is up to the families to make these calls, not ‘we as a society’. If ‘we as a society’ suspect foul play, we have child protective services and the police to investigate parents. This already occured in 2003 when DCF investigated MJ after the Bashir interview and concluded that charges of molestation were unfounded based on interviews with the children and families who all claimed MJ was like a member of their family.

      “As far as the rest of your comments are concerned – just because the parents may also have been at fault here doesn’t necessarily exonerate Michael Jackson from all wrongdoing.”

      Where did I say this? I was asking why people who claim to care so much about protecting children (now) never felt the need to protect these children from their parents? Assuming MJ really did molest Jordie Chandler and his father knew about the molestation for months, was trying to get money out of MJ, while continuing to allow MJ to spend time with his son, how can ‘we as a society’ be so sure that this father was not pimping his son out to other pedophiles? Why didn’t the police or child protective services take measures to protect these children from their parents? I suspect that if MJ really was a pedophile he could have easily made a deal with Evan Chandler that would allow him to continue molesting Jordie Chandler. After the case settled, and MJ supposedly ‘bought his way out of justice’ didn’t anyone think Jordie was in more of an immediate danger from his father? Evan was never investigated for child abuse and the police barely investigated him for the extortion.

      • Alison says:

        @ the truth

        The reason I keep referring to “we as a society” is because I keep seeing all the ppl coming on here (and other places) and defending the practice of a grown man sleeping with (and just generally hanging around) other ppl’s children because they think MJ personally was not a molester. Like I say, even if he personally was innocent, it is still very irresponsible of “we as a society” to condone what he did. It sends out an unclear, ambiguous message to children i.e; it’s okay to sleep with grown men sometimes, even if this means you are often in a locked, hotel bedroom with a touring rock-star (MJ and Jordie Chandler-style), because not all men who want to sleep with you turn out to be child molesters! WTF? To me, this message is RIDICULOUS. Furthermore, MJ should NOT have been congratulated for what he did, regardless of how innocent it may have been from a sexual point of view. Actually, even if he never touched a single piece of underage genitalia (which I’m happy to accept he may not have) I still consider what he did “molestation” in the sense that he monopolised the time of innocent young boys all for his own selfish gratification (whether of his missed childhood or whatever else).

        Obviously, in all situations in life ppl need to use common sense and despite what you have claimed, I am not “paranoid”. I do not live in fear of adult men or look suspiciously at any adult male that comes near my kids. However, I WOULD look suspiciously at an adult male if he were going out of his way to make time alone with my kids on a regular basis (and yes, that includes uncles and cousins!). I am not talking about a tutor that I hired myself or a karate instructor that I pay my kid to go to once a week (although I’d want my kid in a class with other children – not alone). I’m talking about someone who tries to worm their way into your family, looking for excuses to be alone with your children. This is the MO of most pedophiles .. look it up .. heck knows there’s enough information out there! Furthermore, I’m sure all those people who sent their kids to expensive Catholic boarding schools didn’t expect their kids to come to any harm, but they learned the hard way that children left over-night for days on end with grown men can have very nasty consequences! How many times have you heard about nuns molesting children? Very rarely. But priests? Hundreds, maybe even thousands, all over the world! In fact, the current Pope had to give an official apology recently to the victims! No, I WOULDN’T send my kid on some dumb camp where they were going to be weeks without my supervision and under the care of strange men (or even women I don’t know). This “camp” thing is a very American idea, if you ask me, little more than an excuse to get rid of your kids for the summer, and I personally don’t condone it all. Number one, I prefer to spend quality time with my kids in the holidays, but number two, there’s no WAY I could sleep at night if I knew my kid was camping out in the middle of no-where with adult strangers.

      • Alison says:

        @ the truth

        By the way, I’d really appreciate it if you could read my posts a bit more clearly before you respond to them. I didn’t say we could be “sure” that adult males related to children are not a threat! In fact, I made a special point of acknowledging that yes, sometimes children ARE molested by blood relatives. However, I wanted to make the general point that in most cases, children are molested by UN-related males, such as priests, scout-masters, school teachers, and step-fathers (they are not blood relatives). These are certainly the statistics I have been availed of all my life, however, if new statistics have emerged (about blood relatives) I’m happy to accept them. Doubt it though!

  44. Adam Luebke says:

    Beautifully written and interesting analysis of Michael Jackson. He did do a tremendous amount of work to stir up his idiosyncratic lifestyle.

  45. the truth says:

    “No matter what, no grown man should be spending inordinate amounts of time alone with other ppls children, even if he ISN’T molesting them. ”

    I still think this very nonsensical and a little scary. What about teachers,tutors, babysitters, scout leaders, etc? No womder savvy adult males are scared of kids.

    By the way have you ever heard of Big Brothers, Big Sisters?

    youhttp://www.bbbs.org/site/c.diJKKYPLJvH/b.1539751/k.BDB6/Home.htm

    Shouldn’t we as a society outlaw such programs, especially the Big Brothers, little Brothers part of the program? This program allows for adult males to spend inordinate amounts of time with unrelated children. Its possible that kids could get molested by volunteers of this program. Its also possible that volunteers could be falsely accused.

    And why do you automatically assume that any adult male who wants to spend time with other peoples kids is devious? Why do you assume that MJ’s involvement with children is detrimental to the kids, when most of the kids as adults have claimed that MJ was a good influence on their lives? They claim he was kind of like a mentor/father to them…

    Also, there was Ryan White and Gavin Arvizo, and in all those cases MJ could have molested them because he spent inordinate amounts of time alone with them.

    I’m a little astounded by posters like you. I wonder if you are really serious in your fears or if your paranoia is only directed at Michael Jackson.

    • Alison says:

      I can assure you I am serious about my fears regarding molestation – if you ask me, all parents should be deeply serious about this issue. I don’t know how you could possibly argue my “paranoia” might be directed “only” at Michael when for most of my posts, I try to deflect the focus AWAY from him personally in order to draw attention to broader issues I feel are raised by his story. Sorry, but maybe “Big Brother” and “Big Sister” programs should be outlawed. I don’t know if they are USA programs or not (haven’t followed your links as yet) but if other examples of USA “culture” are anything to go by, then older kids can’t be trusted with younger ones in that country. For a start, all Hollywood ever seems to promote is older siblings hating their younger counterparts and trying to get rid of them, this is a line of thinking followed in all the movies and sitcoms, and then you have things like “hazings”, i.e; the mentally ill American take on traditional college initiation ceremonies. I have seen footage of some of these hazings that got out of control, with older kids holding younger ones down and beating them, kicking them, and tipping liquid-paper (white-out) down their throats while a young man filmed the whole thing, laughing and stating it was “beautiful”. This is good ole’ American boys and “gals”, and I have seen this type of rubbish time and time again from that country. Only in the US would “school violence” refer to a student coming into to class and blowing their classmates brains out! In any other nation, “school violence” is a fist-fight behind the canteen!

  46. the truth says:

    The Big Brothers and Big Sisters program recruits unrelated adult male volunteers to mentor at risk youth. It does not involve two children. So I guess, it can be a very dangerous program. A strange man who volunteers for it could be a pedophile and could molest their mentees. Thats why I keep repeating in my posts that it is really up to the parents to make these decisions. And the program could be a magnate for pedophiles. After all, who would want to connect with other people’s children and mentor them one on one? Or maybe the adult who volunteers for the program thinks they are helping a child who has few caring adults in their lives to support them. I guess by your reasoning because we can’t be sure whats going on between these grown men who volunteer to mentor young boys, we should outlaw the program. However, many people who have gone through this program would disagree with you. They believe that their mentors have had a positve impact on their lives. Similarly, most of the CHILDREN (it was not only boys) who were friends of MJ’s claim that he provided them with emotional support. Dave Dave claimed in the link I provided that MJ was like a surrogate father to him. Is this also pedophilic?

  47. Alison says:

    @ the truth

    The problem is for every well-meaning, genuine adult friend or mentor, there is usually just as many predators and perverts. This is why, like you said yourself, people often volunteer for programs such as this (i.e; the Big Brother/Sister program) – because they are predators who know they will have easy access to children. I am not someone who takes pleasure in making these negative statements. Like most people, I would love to live in a world where everyone was well-meaning and children were the top priority. Unfortunately though, this isn’t the reality. We used to be a lot happier in the old days simply because we weren’t as aware. Then, as time moved on, little stories started to come out. I remember school-friends of mine in the 80’s started telling me “secrets” about their “step-dad” or the local priest, etc. It was always “but don’t tell anyone”. No, there weren’t oodles of these stories, but enough of them to make me realise things weren’t always as “Mary Poppins” as I once had assumed. And it wasn’t just me. The media started to report molestation stories back in the ’80s, some of them that went back as far as the 1940’s and many involving the most trusted of all male elders .. Catholic priests!

    I actually agree with you that ultimately, it is up to the parents to make decisions about who spends time with their children. I would not want to live in a society where the authorities dictated my personal choices. HOWEVER, what IS needed I think is parents to make sure they are educated on child safety and to make sure they educate their kids. Education always has been and always will be the key. Furthermore, for parents to be seen defending someone like Michael Jackson is very dangerous, in my view. Like I’ve said a gazillion times, not because MJ was necessarily guilty, but because someone ELSE who acted like him around children may well be guilty, and kids (or even adults) simply don’t have the prescience to be able to tell who will be well-meaning and who is just a straight-out predator. I would always tell my children “sorry, but you can’t sleep in bed with an adult stranger” no matter HOW convinced my kid was that it was safe, and I wouldn’t want there to be any ambiguity about my stance (i.e; well “Michael Jackson” was okay but some strangers aren’t). No … NO strangers (un-related grown men) are okay to sleep with (or just hang out with for hours unsupervised), the same way NO stranger is okay to hop into a car with.

    • the truth says:

      I don’t think anyone has ever said it was okay for MJ to sleep with children. It caused a lot of trouble for him and the children involved. It violated social norms and people like to associate beds with sex. However, you don’t need a bed to molest children. All you need is someone to trust you enough to leave you alone with the child. Any adult who is left alone with a child could easily molest the child, both men AND women. Statistics show that more pedophiles are men, that’s why suspicion usually falls on men. However, there have been more REPORTED cases recently of women teachers molesting children. I think the statistics could be misleading. Their might actually might be more female molesters out their than has been reported because they are less likely to get caught or fall under suspicion due to the way society views women. Their male victims are less likely to report it because they have been socialized to think that its an honor. That’s why when you claim “No matter what, no grown man should be spending inordinate amounts of time alone with other ppls children, even if he ISN’T molesting them. ”, you should also include adult women if you really want to be on the safe side. However, this is really YOUR own opinion and not the beliefs of ALL parents. Many parents have trusted their close friends, boyfriends/girlfriends, teachers, mentors, babysitters etc. alone with their children. That does not make them negligent. It is their job, not yours, to decide who they leave with their children. The same thing goes for choosing to send your child to a summer camp. You claim parents who do this want to get rid of their kids; however, some might actually choose to do this for the social and education benefits these programs provides for their children. You shouldn’t go around accusing them. Its their choice, and its not always or even usually a bad choice.

      The same thing goes for MJ. The parents KNEW MJ and decided for themselves it was okay to leave their children alone with them. They and their kids actually DEFENDED MJ and the decision to trust MJ with their kids. They viewed him as a member of their family. And quite frankly, in some cases family friends could be more trustworthy and reliable than blood relations. It depends on the family and the situation. That’s why you shouldn’t go around making all encompassing statements un-related adult males. I doubt you really believe it. I bet if you saw one of those stories on TV about an un-related who successfully mentored a child through the Big Brothers, Big Sisters program, you wouldn’t think that man or women should have never been left alone with an un-related child. Or that the adult who enjoys mentoring a child is an ‘emotional pedophile’.

      • Alison says:

        Of course it is the individual parents choice whether or not to send their kid to summer camp, that is a given, however MY personal choice is that I would never do it. Sorry, but I don’t want my child out in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of adult strangers (men OR women) without my supervision and protection, for weeks on end. The opportunity for an abuse to take place is just too big. Do I let my child attend slumber parties? Yes, if I know the parents and child reasonably well. A slumber party that lasts one night and that I can easily drive to and pick my child up from (and that the adults at the party KNOW I can easily grab my child from!) is far more palatable to me than an isolated camp that goes for weeks on end. Sure, there may be some educational benefits to such a camp, but to me, the potential benefits are far outweighed by the potential threats to my child’s safety. As far as ppl wanting to get rid of their children for the summer, of course not every family will have this motivation, but as an Australian I have been SATURATED with news from the USA and so I know full well what a messed up, dysfunctional mess it is – the amount of mothers I have seen who kill their own babies in that place is vomit-inducing, so really, what do you expect ppl to think?

  48. the truth says:

    Also, adults who love children and show interest in other people children are NOT ALWAYS or even usually pedophiles. In fact, as I have written in other posts and you’ve acknowledged this post, they might actually want to make a difference in the lives of the children they befriend. And they might actually succeed in making a difference in the lives of the children they befriend, according the claims of the children as adults. Your claim that it doesn’t matter if MJ never did anything sexual with a child, his relationships with children were pedophilic in and of themselves is ludicrous. How do you know this? Why do you want to contradict the claims of not just ‘fanatic MJ fans’ but also the claims of the children he befriended, who as adults claimed he had a positive impact on their lives, due to his EMOTIONAL, not monetary support? Their was much more to association with children than just sleeping with them (which was wrong). If their where never any molestation accusations, I think most people would see at as a positive thing. In fact before 1993, his ability to relate to children was widely admired and respected. There are other celebrities who give money to children’s charities, very few were actually willing to spend hours of their time mentoring and supporting sick and disadvantaged children. MJ probably realized that goes a long way for a child than just paying their medical bills, as Dave Dave claimed in the link I provided. That’s what really separated MJ’s humanitarian deeds from the work of others. After 1993, this is now ‘pedophilic’.

    As for the rest of your post about letting kids know its okay to sleep with strangers. WTF? First of all, an ‘un-related’ adult male is not always a stranger. He could be closer to the family than actual blood relatives. It depends on the situation. Maybe you should explain to your kids, they shouldn’t want to sleep with ANY adult man, uncle etc., not just because of the dangers of being molested but also because of societal norms. Other people, media, etc. will make fun of you and the man, etc. EVEN if he is totally innocent. MJ paid the price in full and suffered for the past 16 years of his life because of his bad judgment. For 12 years he was investigated by the police, DCF, and even the FBI for his decision to share a bed with a child. Explain all this to your kid if you’re really serious, and also warn your kid if he’s a male to remember to stay far, far, away from other peoples kids once he hits puberty. And no I don’t think anyone has ever said sleeping with kids was a good choice. And no, there was a lot more to MJ’s association with children than just the Martin Bashir business and those allegations. If it weren’t for those allegations, he would have been respected for the work he did with children.

  49. the truth says:

    Also Allison, here is something that should really freak you out and maybe you should direct all your outrage at that. SINGLE MEN are being allowed and even encouraged to adopt children by adoption agencies.

    http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article5134011.ece

    Perhaps you should go after them. They could be pedophiles adopting children to molest or maybe they are men who love children, don’t want to get married and want to adopt. In my opinion, I think this could be a good oppurtunity for the many children in foster care who don’t have loving homes and are even already suffering from abuse in foster homes. Maybe they can find a loving single father willing to adopt them? Or maybe they’re all just perverts? Also, I think you were the same poster that claimed MJ ‘bought his kids’, well here are more men who are actually alive ‘buying kids’. Also the same article mentions the problem that many organizations have recruiting men to work with children because of wide spread believe that men who love kids are pedophiles. Here is another about a man trying to adopt a child no one else even wants. http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0618/p11s01-lifp.html

    You can still be opposed to this. However, your opinions aren’t universal and they aren’t even the law. Single men are legally allowed to adopt in the U.S. And they could be good parents.

    • Alison says:

      I’ve never stated even once that all single men (unrelated men, etc) who are caring toward children are actually pedophiles. That is ridiculous and statistically, highly improbable. All I’ve ever said is that unrelated men are more likely to be harmful to children than women or blood relatives are. If you don’t like it coming from my mouth, ask the cops. I’m sure they’d be more than happy to avail you of the info. Or maybe you’d like to just get online after you’ve read my posts and check out your local area pedophile register and see what comes up? See how many, not just pedophiles, but actual child killers there REALLY are out there (and these are just the ones the cops KNOW about) and then see what you think. Furthermore, see what you can find out about these ppl’s backgrounds and what their MO for attack was. I don’t really care how many single men want to adopt children and whether or not such a process is legal. Nothing is going to faze me or bamboozle me away from reality. My opinions on this subject are based on real life evidence and historical data, not on my own prejudices or bias or need to be politically correct. F*ck political correctness; child safety is far more important!

      I’m sure there are a lot of single men out there who are decent ppl who just want to provide a nice home for a child. That is fine, and I wish them and the children they adopt the best of luck. But again, this is not going to sway my stance on the pedophile issue, and what’s more, the men who request adoption rights will, I assume, be highly scrutinised before adoption is permitted. This is a different situation to a pedophile or child killer that lurks in the local toilet cubicle waiting for its prey (we had a little girl recently in Australia raped and murdered by a male predator lurking in the cubicle of a busy shopping centre toilet. She was 8 yrs-old and her name was Sofia Rodrigez-Urrutia-Shu). It is also different to a pedophile who worms their way into a family unit by becoming a family “friend”. When someone is a friend, ppl are off their guard and far less likely to scrutinise that person.

      If you want even MORE evidence of some of the damage done by unrelated males, you can easily google the evidence against Catholic priests. When the Pope came to Sydney recently for World Youth Day, he had to issue an official apology (among many others he’s had to do around the world!) to a Sydney family who’s two daughters were BOTH molested by priests. One of their daughters was dead (she committed suicide as a result of the trauma caused by the assaults) and their other daughter was permanently brain-damaged as she tried unsuccessfully to kill herself after learning of her sister’s suicide. I, along with the rest of Australia, saw this family on the prime time news and they looked nothing short of destroyed. They put all their loyalty and trust into the very ppl society recommended the most, and yet these ppl (the priests) turned out to be their biggest conceivable enemies.

  50. Alison says:

    @ the truth

    I am aware that sexual molestation doesn’t always happen in a bed, and equally, I am aware that it doesn’t always happen over a long period of time. Some instances of molestation are very fleeting, one-off things – not just molestations of children but also rape of women, etc. Obviously though, nobody can live in permanent fear of such possibilities. I’ve heard of women being raped on job interviews after being left alone with a male interviewer, however, I couldn’t let that stop me looking for a job. Similarly, you can’t stop your child from going to slumber parties or attending tennis lessons once a week, etc, because .. let’s face it .. there’s a chance someone might molest them. Such fears, while they might have a basis in reality, are extreme and dysfunctional. However, and here’s where the common sense comes into it, you can (in my opinion) do certain things that LESSON yours (and especially your childrens) chances of being molested, without disrupting the flow of normal, everyday life. One of the most obvious things, in my view, is not allowing anybody, but PARTICULARLY an unrelated, adult male, to spend inordinate amounts of time alone with your child (“alone” means either in bed, or out!). See, when I say “inordinate amounts of time”, I’m not sure you fully grasp what I mean, so to make it clearer, allow me to use Michael Jackson as the example:-

    Michael Jackson was surrounded, I mean SURROUNDED, by little boys. He had them on tour with him; at the ranch with him; at industry award shows with him; in bed with him; on holiday with him (and just him!), on the video set with him .. hell .. he even had an 8 yr-old as the “best man” at his “wedding” to Debbie Rowe. If we were to see these boys as “groupies”, then Michael would give Mick Jagger a run for his money any day, only in Jagger’s case, (as with most male rock-stars) the groupies were women and not young boys. Surely, Michael could not have been “mentoring” all of these children, and in the case of Jordie Chandler, you can’t even use the “getting over an illness” excuse as Jordie was not ill. At one point, Michael even moved into the Chandler home and was doing Jordie’s laundry for him – is this not a bit extreme for a boy who wasn’t even sick? This is what I mean by inordinate amounts of time. And you see, it’s not just that the increased amount of time allows for more actual instances of molestation (which obviously, it does!) but also that it allows a pedophile more time to build up the child’s loyalty and trust, and hence, make them less likely to report instances when they DO occur, or even to register that such instances are truly wrong. Of COURSE we can’t always tell who will be a molester and who won’t, but like I say, there are certain common sense things that can be done to decrease the likelihood of a crime taking place. If more parents had said “no” to Michael Jackson earlier in the piece, then everyone’s lives would have been better, including Michael’s (esp. if he was innocent!). The alarm bells should have gone off much earlier than they did – it should never have gotten to the point where Evan Chandler was actually requesting Michael take a lie-detector test to prove he didn’t sleep with his son! And again, this goes back to what I’ve been saying about us as a “society”. We all seem so scared of saying or doing anything that will look politically incorrect or “paranoid” that even when presented with OBVIOUS evidence that someone might be a pedophile, we all jump on the excuse bandwagon, including the parents of the actual child! Evan claims to have long had instincts that something was “wrong” between Jackson and his son but let Jackson’s “Peter Pan” image and personal magnitude dazzle him. I can understand this to an extent, but he was still taking a gamble and playing games with his child’s safety, which I think most ppl would agree is very difficult to excuse.

    You are actually wrong when you say that if not for the allegations, nobody would have suspected Michael Jackson. Like I say, until Michael cultivated his own “Wacko Jacko” image, the overwhelming majority of media stories on him were positive, however, that didn’t stop individual members of the public having their suspicions. I remember as far back as ’89, a family friend, who happens to be a social-worker of over 30 yrs, voicing such doubts. Very casually she said to me one day, “You know he might be a pedophile, don’t you?”. I was like .. what .. Michael Jackson .. no way! She said “Yes, that’s what they do, surround themselves with things that lure children”, in reference to the amusement park at Neverland. And she wasn’t the only one I knew of who uttered such comments!

    It never ceases to amaze me how ppl cite MJ as some kind of moral watch-dog/saviour for other people’s “greedy” or dysfunctional families, yet he himself wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on personal amusements and brought three children into the world without a mother! Can ppl not grasp that maybe, all those children were at that ranch simply for Michael’s personal amusement (whether sexual or otherwise), and that maybe, he would occasional help the odd one get over an illness just to make himself look good? He was obviously a very self-indulgent man in other areas, so why not when it came to children?

    • the truth says:

      Allison, produce evidence. You claim Michael Jackson was always surrounded by ‘little boys’. How exactly do you know this? . What exactly are your sources for this information? A book written by Randy Tarraborelli, who hadn’t even had any contact with Michael Jackson or anyone in his camp (except people who had been fired or no longer working for MJ) since the mid-1980s? I read it too, and I wonder if he was Michael Jackson’s shadow or floating on a wall with him everywhere he went. How do you know an eight year old served as a best man at MJ’s wedding? What’s Tarroborelli’s source this? He was even floating on a wall during MJ’s wedding night with Lisa Marie Presley, cause he knows for a fact they had sex and he knows what they talked about while they were doing it, silly. People really need to develop better critical thinking skills. And I bet you also believe MJ was sitting on a couch ‘staring obsessively at Jordan Chandler’, following him around wherever he went, doing the Chandler’s laundry, etc. How exactly do you know this? If the Chandler’s were lying about the molestation, how do you know they weren’t also lying about the other parts of their story? And what about Jordie Chandler’s little sister Lilly? In every picture and video that I’ve seen of MJ with Jordie Chandler, he is ALWAYS holding Lily Chandler. It was never just the two of them, it was alway THREE of them. And before you say it, NO these were not ‘publicity shots’. Publicity for what? This was before the accusations were made and the pictures were taken by tabloids who were doing their best to get details of MJ’s private life. Yet, in all the Chandler accounts of the supposed molestation, Lilly is suspiciously absent from the story. They want to give the impression that MJ was unnaturally obssessed with Jordan Chandler. We don’t really know which part of their story is true and which isn’t. And then their was the testimony of the women who were sisters of the boys the prosecution was accusing MJ of molesting (embarrasingly for the prosecution all the boys testified that they were never molested). They all testified to sleeping in MJ’s room with their brothers. And then there’s Macualey Culkin’s father’s claims that MJ paid attention to children of BOTH sexes, and then their are there’s Nicole Richie’s claim that she also slept with MJ as a child (and she has no male siblings) and there was also Quincy’s Jone’s autobiography about MJ’s interest in his daughters. And these women are all celebrities who’ve been given a chance to state their opinion on MJ or were sisters of boys MJ was accused who had a chance to testify about MJ’s relationship with thier brothers. If a non-celebrity woman ever had a similar to tell about being befriended by MJ, who do you think would want to broadcast her story? So again, how do you know MJ was only into ‘little boys’ and I bet you also believe ‘little white boys’? More imporatantly how do you know that MJ was obssessed with them?

      You also claim that the familes should have taken action sooner. Which families exactly? Do you mean the Chandlers,lol? That would have gotten in the way of Evan Chandlers millionaire aspirations, at least the mother claimed ignorance. Or do you mean the Culkins, Barnes, Robsons, Cascios,Carters, Feldmans, Lewis, Richies, Jones, Dave Dave’s mother, and maybe even Ryan White’s family. These are all the ones I can give off the top of my head and these are all the one’s that have gone public. Notice all these families claimed MJ never did anything wrong. So what exactly do you mean? Do you know better than those families who they should have allowed their kids to associate with? I thought you admitted before that it was the parents right to decide who they trust their kids with. Or are you accusing them of defending the pedophile who molested their kids. Or are you accusing them of allowing improper ‘spiritual molestation’ to take place and defending this ’emotional molester’?

      • Alison says:

        Well right from the get-go, you’ve got your facts skewed. The “Lewis’s” (as in Emmanuel Lewis’s parents) may not have spoken out against Michael publicly, but they sure as heck stopped him from seeing their son! That’s right – everything was hunky dory until Michael decided to check into a hotel, just him and the little boy, as “father and son”. When this occurred, Lewis’s parents became concerned and the boy’s relationship with Jackson was immediately terminated. This info can be sourced by reading Tarraborreli (who incidentally, has been tracing MJ’s movements for YEARS and has spoken to countless sources, inc. Lisa Presley and MJ himself several times!) or by doing a straight out google search. Now I know what you’re going to say: “just because they checked in as father and son, doesn’t mean there was anything sexual going on” blah, blah. No, it DOESN’T necessarily mean that, but guess what, it’s still a highly inappropriate thing to do, i.e; a grown man checking into a hotel with an unrelated little boy, so much so that “Webster’s” parents pulled the plug on it immediately (and no, they weren’t “poisoned” in thought by the Chandler scandal because this was years before that). Any parent in their right mind would have done what these parents did and anyone who argues otherwise is probably a pedophile themselves. Furthermore, by terminating the relationship when they did, these parents (unlike the Chandlers) not only protected their son from any potential harm, but also protected MICHAEL if he was innocent (sexually speaking) of being wrongly accused. Michael should have known better than to check into a hotel with another family’s child, in fact the mere thought of such an act is ABSURD, but if he (MJ) really was just too naive to see how something like this could be perceived, then better the parents (of Emmanuel Lewis) to “kill it before it grew” and stop any more potentially ambiguous situations from occurring.

        It amazes me how you argue that MJ was surrounded by just as many girls as boys, yet the overwhelming majority of names you mention are boy’s names. You cite the: “Culkins, Barnes, Robsons, Cascios, Carters, Feldmans, Lewis, Richies, Jones, Dave Dave’s”. Okay, so that’s – Macaulay, Brett, Wade, Aaron, Corey, Emmanuel, Dave Dave, and the Cascio brothers! Oh, better throw in Nicole Richie and Quincy Jones’s daughters just to make it look fair! Even the Smoking Gun describes MJ’s residence as “Boy-centric Neverland”. And never mind the fact that several sources at Neverland cite seeing photo’s of Macaulay Culkin (among other male youths) in a semi-naked state in MJ’s bedroom. In fact, these items were among the many that Neverland staff were ordered to get rid of before the first police raid (in 93). Do you remember Michael bragging to Diane Sawyer (in the interview he did with his quickie wife, LMP) that “nothing” was found in this raid that could incriminate him? He made such a big point of it (you can still youtube this vid) “Nothing nothing nothing” he said, over and over. Even back when I first saw this interview (back when I was still convinced MJ was innocent) I thought this part seemed phony and overly deliberate .. “Nothing, nothing, nothing”. These days, I realise that MJ was emphasising this because HE had seen to it personally that “nothing” would be found. It was almost as if he had outsmarted everyone. Think about it: if you knew in your heart you had nothing to hide, wouldn’t you be more casual about it, i.e; “Of course they found nothing, because there’s nothing to find” and then move on to the next point, rather than focusing on that fact above all else?

        By the way, I realise that even if MJ DID have something to hide (as obviously, I am insinuating) it still is not a fete de complete that he actually molested anyone. It certainly increases the likelihood, however, it’s always possible the guy just had some perverted visual tastes and that it never went any further than that.

        If MJ had showed the level of interest in Lilly that he did in Jordan, don’t you think Evan Chandler would have smelled an opportunity to cash in twice? Why would he only demand compensation for one child? What’s more, there are plenty of witnesses, including Monaco hotel staff, that MJ’s main point of interest was overwhelmingly Jordie, and not Lilly (or June!). The Arviso family, who are widely considered notorious grifters, could easily have tried to stick Michael for three counts of molestation (inc. of Gavin’s sister), but instead, they only claim he molested Gavin – a boy with decidedly similar looks to Jordie.

        I know what you’re going to say – ppl were “out to get” Michael and just trying to cash in. Supposedly, everyone from ex- Neverland staff, to grifting families, to the PR expert hired as “damage control” after the Arviso claims, to La Toya Jackson (who admittedly, retracted her claims) all decided to set MJ up. Somehow, all these different people, from widely divergent backgrounds, got together and corroborated their stories in a manner so water-tight, it is positively breathtaking, and all for the purposes of spite against Michael Jackson? Well all I can say is that there must be a lot of highly talented actors out there going unrewarded .. I mean .. have you READ those transcripts?? Oh wait, let me guess, the transcripts at the Smoking Gun are “fake” and also part of the plot to “get” Michael? Whatever!

  51. the truth says:

    “Evan claims to have long had instincts that something was “wrong” between Jackson and his son but let Jackson’s “Peter Pan” image and personal magnitude dazzle him. I can understand this to an extent, but he was still taking a gamble and playing games with his child’s safety, which I think most ppl would agree is very difficult to excuse.”

    Ridiculous. Think for a second, this doesn’t happen in the real world. And if something like this does happen the ‘father’ would have been thrown into prison alongside the pedophile they cut a deal with. He was accusing MJ and asking for money and perks early from MJ early on in exchange for keeping qiuet. So quit making excuses for him, if you believe he allowed MJ to molest his kid (physically or spirtually) in exchange for money. And I wrote extensively about this BS in other posts.

    “Can ppl not grasp that maybe, all those children were at that ranch simply for Michael’s personal amusement (whether sexual or otherwise), and that maybe, he would occasional help the odd one get over an illness just to make himself look good? He was obviously a very self-indulgent man in other areas, so why not when it came to children?”

    Nope. Because you have no evidence to back up your accusations. And you are confronted with the claims of the actual children who as adults claimed that MJ was good friend to them both as children and adults. And again so what if MJ enjoyed being around children. A lot of other adults enjoy being around children, and thats why they decide to become teachers etc. and even why they choose to have children. That is why an adult would choose to become a mentor to a child through a program like Big Brothers, Big Sisters. Would you accuse them of being self-indulgent in their decision to befriend children? The point that you refuse to acknowledge is that the children who MJ befriended have all claimed the relationship was a good thing. And what exactly is wrong with a child having another loving and caring adult in their life, even if he or she is not a blood relative? You claim there is something ‘pedophilic’ about an adult who takes an interest in unrelated children even if they never molest them. The children themselves, as adults have claimed otherwise. Go after them, since you know better.
    And I am going to post this video of Dave Dave, since you seem determined to go around it.

    Now, Dave Dave claimed that MJ continued to be his friend and kept him as a personal friend well into adulthood. He felt like he had a father/son bond with MJ. This is not an easy thing to do for someone who is just trying to make themselves ‘look good’ by helping a sick child. This relationship went on for YEARS well into Dave Dave’s adulthood, past the point when he was a child. Dave Dave obviously felt it was genuine, so I don’t know how you can claim to know better than him that MJ was only using Dave Dave to make himself look good.

    And I don’t know what makes you think only sick children need a mentor. The children in Big Brothers, Big Sisters program are not sickly. They usually have uninvolved parents in their lives and the organization tries to connect them with an adult who can supplant the absent parent. By all accounts, Evan Chandler was not the doting father. He wasn’t interested in his son, until Michael Jackson came into his son’s life. According to the GQ article he owed over $70,000 in child support. And based on all the evidence from a variety of sources and his actions (whether MJ was a pedophile or not) he was a deadbeat. How do you know Jordie did not benefit from having a caring adult (if MJ was not a pedophile) in his life? You don’t know, you just want to assume the worst even without any evidence. Dave Dave described the SAME relationship with MJ as the other kids who people like to accuse MJ molesting (despite denials from the kids) and which you claim is ’emotional molestation’ even if MJ never touched anybody. Here is one by Frank Cascio, who admitted to
    sleeping in the same bedroom with Michael Jackson as a child, and continued his friendship with MJ well into adulthood, and even worked for MJ as an adult. His family considered MJ a close personal friend and allowed MJ to be around their children. I don’t know why you think you know better than them. beliehttp://abcnews.go.com/GMA/MichaelJackson/story?id=8020392&page=2

    Also, your friend who suspected MJ of being a pedophile in 1989 is an exception not the norm. Many more people suspected MJ of having sex with his monkey than probably molesting kids. The focus was usually on the monkey. There were a lot jokes and innuendo about that.

    And as I said before, your opinion about MJ’s decision to become a single father are not universal. More importantly, even if you disagree with a single man’s decision to raise children without a mother, you would never think of accusing that man of ‘buying kids’ after he just died and you’ve seen the kids on TV crying for their father (the only parent they’ve ever known). That is just vicious.

    • Alison says:

      Okay, I have followed your link and seen the interview with Dave Dave and I think it is great that MJ stayed his friend and supported him (and I think it is equally horrifying that DD claims his own father was responsible for his burns – what a tragic situation!). There is no doubt Michael did genuinely good things and that people are willing to testify to as much. Who wouldn’t applaud this? I also have in my mind, however, the claim of Corey Feldman that once he got to a certain age, MJ lost all interest in him. The same claim is made by Michael’s British friend, Terry George. Did MJ lose interest in these boys through the natural course of human friendships, or was there more to it? What’s more, I don’t know if ppl realise this, but a pedophile doesn’t necessarily molest EVERY child they come into contact with! It’s possible Jackson only selected boys he felt would be easy to cover his tracks with, for whatever reasons that may have been.

      For all Michael’s good deeds, he was no stranger to self-indulgence and just outright deception. For example, when he married Lisa Presley he told the world he had long had a crush on her, yet being the dedicated fan of his that I was, I had read his autobiography “Moonwalk” (1989) and didn’t remember ANY mention of Lisa whatsoever?? If I am wrong I am happy to accept it, but to the best of my memory, she was not named. MJ mentioned Brooke, Tatum and Diana – but no Lisa! Why not, if he supposedly had such a big crush on the woman? I just can’t get past the idea that Lisa was nothing but a ring-in (even if she herself didn’t realise it at the time) in order to execute “damage control” for Michael’s suddenly tarnished image. And you’ve got to ask yourself what sort of person MARRIES someone for such a superficial reason, and then openly lies about their motives? I also DISTINCTLY remember in Moonwalk, Michael stated he had “recently added a cleft” to his chin, yet in 2003, he insisted to Martin Bashir he had only ever had “two nose jobs”! Sorry, but these are LIES!

      As far as my claim that Michael “bought his kids” I can go one even better – Debbie Rowe gave those kids to Michael “as a present” .. or at least .. that’s what Michael told Bashir in 2003! Who hands over their flesh and blood “as a present” to a rock-star, and moreover, what sort of morals did Michael have to brag about it? Yes, Michael Jackson BOUGHT those children! What do you call allowing a woman to surrogate two of your babies in exchange for a ranch in California?? Even if Michael was the best father in the world, it doesn’t change the fact that his children were, essentially, bought!

  52. stacey says:

    Terry George still had close freindship with Michael. He did an interview with ITV, and British Channel. I just thought I should let you know…..

  53. stacey says:

    sorry my mistake Terry George was NEVER close friend to Michael. When i wrote he still had a close freindship i was thinking about a British friend. He even said that he spoke to him for short times not years and years. The relationship between Terry and Michael are more fan and a star. Michael only SPOKE to him for short period of time not years. How can you call that freindship?

  54. stacey says:

    a = another

  55. Alison says:

    @Stacey

    I wasn’t there so I don’t know the exact nature of the relationship between MJ and Terry George (or MJ and anyone!) all I know is that George claims (as does Corey Feldman) that Michael became his friend and showed significant interest in him, only to then turn his back on him once he got older. He also claims that Michael spoke to him over the phone about masturbation and even asked him if he used a “cream” to assist him. According to George, Michael claimed to be masturbating himself during that particular phone conversation. When asked why he never told anyone about this before, George said it was because he didn’t feel it was necessary and the conversation didn’t really bother him. He said it was only in the context of the later allegations made against Michael Jackson that he felt he should say something. I believe him completely. I have had experiences like this with ppl, where little things have happened that you think are kinda weird at the time but you just brush it off and don’t say anything. It’s often not until someone references something later that you feel you should say something. Furthermore, the business about the “cream” is a recurring theme with Michael Jackson. Several witnesses have cited Michael Jackson while in the company of Jordy and then Gavin Arvizo, requesting cream. Even if these claims are true it obviously doesn’t mean that Michael was using this “cream” (one witness cites Vaseline) to masturbate or masturbate in front of children (or masturbate the children!), but it does seem strange that so many ppl have mentioned it (the subject of Michael Jackson, little boys and “cream” was even parodied on MadTV!). It also starts to look very nasty considering one witness claimed at the 2005 trial that Jackson had an obvious erection under his track pants when, in the company of Jordy Chandler, MJ requested he (the witness, an ex-worker) go out to his car and get some Vaseline for him.

  56. DAVID says:

    Let me get this straight. Where do child molesters come from? I hear all the time (like a broken record)that it is because they were molested themselves WHEN THEY WERE KIDS (see, no sense in molesting a grown man, gotta be a child, like Michael was in mosts eyes). OK. So when was Michael molested? What you dont remember? You all were there spouting your opinions, right there, hands on the pulse.Dont kid yourself. Remember when he was interrogated and they made him disrobe for you? Made him come back twice! The whole world FONDLED Michael. TWICE!
    This is so that you can tell yoursel, “If he wasnt a child molester before this that FONDLING we gave him will surely make him one now”. So in reality if you are not on Michaels side YOU are a child molester as far as I can tell. Bunch of stinking cock fonling sodomites.
    PS. There is a prophecy in the scriptures that says David is coming back to JACK OFF on them until they have his children right out of thier little vaginas, I must have you know. They think they are men but really NEED COCK!
    Ps. The real concern is that it is obvious that these people that call Michael a molester are so damn interested in getting hold of HIS children. They say one moment that they are not his but as soon as we turn our backs, what do you suppose they would do? What do you think they have in mind? Cause see, the truth is that THEY WANT TO MOLEST THE CHILDREN BECAUSE THEY ARE SODOMITES .

  57. DAVID says:

    Here a question for all the fondlers out there. When he was interrogated, who jacked it up? Who gave Michael a hard on so we have a meaningful test. Well if his pecker is like mine they LOOK much different, hard vs. soft. So describing his SOFT penis only proves he WAS NOT ARROUSED by the viewer/child. So question really is, WERE THE INTERROGATORS PEDOPHILES OR JUST COCK FONDLERS?And who got it up?

  58. shelly says:

    @Alison

    For Terry George, you should remember the story appeared in the Sun in 1993. It means it was in a tabloid and the FBI didn’t believe him. He did that at the time he opened a phone chat for gay men. If you google the story he was the one calling MJ all the time and the parents stopped it.
    Feldman said himself he was friend with Jackson until September 2001 where they had a big faling out.

    For the witness speaking about the vaseline, you should not forger he was one of the “Neverland five” who lost the case against Jackson and owed him more than one million dollar. In that case, he claimed he was fired because he knew too much about the 1993 case. In fact he was fired for stealing and he kept changing his story about the molestation and went to tabloids.

  59. Marie says:

    I hope people realize by now that Michael Jackson was not a pedophile. He did not molest kids. He simply enjoyed the companies of children a whole lot and this is not a crime. Michael Jackson was obsessed with kids the same way there are some people who are obsessed with cats. Cat lovers enjoy having multiple cats running around in their house and they take great care of the cats and they even sleep in the same bed with some of the cats. It does not mean the cat lover is having sex with the cat.It is the same with Michael Jackson. He loved kids dearly and would never hurt them. Society and the media tried to make it look like Michael was a pedophile. Not true. They never found proof that he molested Jordan and Gavin. That is why he never went to jail.His love for children was not sick at all. In fact it is a great kind of love. He was the type of man who would die and risk his life for helping a child. Michael Jackson belonged to another world, another society, another era. This era he lived in was not good for his spirit because people kept judging him and accusing him of the most horrible crimes. I hope now God finds a place for him so he can finally be happy and he can be around kids loving them purely and not be judged ever for wanting to be a universal father.

    • Alison says:

      “Society and the media tried to make it look like Michael was a pedophile.”

      Well actually Marie, Jordan Chandler and Gavin Arvizo (along with Evan Chandler, Janet Arvizo, Star and David Arvizo) are the ones who accused Michael Jackson of being a pedophile – not “society and the media”. Perhaps society and the media took hold of the accusations and displayed some bias toward them, but you can hardly blame them considering Michael Jackson and his own PR people had deliberately been planting stories in the press for years that painted him as an “eccentric weirdo”. Up until these bizarre stories hit (the “elephants man’s bones”; the “oxygen chamber”, etc) the media take on Michael Jackson had been an almost exclusively positive one. By the time Jordie Chandler accused him of molestation in ’93, Michael Jackson had done significant damage to his own image.

      As for the second lot of allegations – what do you EXPECT people to think when the guy had already been accused of pedophilia ten years earlier? There he is in 2003, holding hands with a 13 yr-old boy and asking “why can’t you share your bed?”. Oh sure, he “slept on the floor” and “gave the bed to the child”, but he still admitted to having the kid in his bedroom yet we’re all meant to just “assume” it’s innocent because hey .. Michael Jackson made some good albums back in his youth so therefore, he can’t be a pedophile?? The guy spent his life surrounded by little boys (he even took them on holiday with him .. WITHOUT his wife, i.e; Lisa Marie!) and wore more lipstick than Farrah Fawcett, but god forbid anyone would actually suspect he may be a child molester! All I can say is that if he was innocent then he sure knew how to paint himself as a creepy pervert. He could have helped children as much as he liked without actually having them in his bedroom. This aspect of “helping” them was never necessary and if the children were simply “following” him into his room as he claimed, then he should have stopped short of letting them actually sleep overnight, if for no other reason than it was causing tremendous trouble for everyone concerned!

  60. Timbuktu says:

    Here are some facts about Male pedophiles.

    Are often Single or with few friends in his age group. If married, the relationship is more “companion” based with no sexual relations.

    He is often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.

    He will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptives like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.

    He has hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.

    Pedophiles often have a specific age of child they target. Some prefer younger children, some older.

    Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.

    Many pedophiles often prefer children close to puberty who are sexually inexperienced, but curious about sex.

    The pedophile will often be employed in a position that involves daily contact with children. If not employed, he will put himself in a position to do volunteer work with children, often in a supervisory capacity such as sports coaching, contact sport instruction, unsupervised tutoring or a position where he has the opportunity to spend unsupervised time with a child.

    The pedophile often seeks out shy, handicapped, and withdrawn children, or those who come from troubled homes or under privileged homes. He then showers them with attention, gifts, taunting them with trips to desirable places like amusement parks, zoo’s, concerts, the beach and other such places.

    Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the the child’s self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature, appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content such as x-rated movies or pictures. They offer them alcohol or drugs to hamper their ability to resist activities or recall events that occurred.

    Many times pedophiles will develop a close relationship with a single parent in order to get close to their children. Once inside the home, they have many opportunities to manipulate the children — using guilt, fear, and love to confuse the child. If the child’s parent works, it offers the pedophile the private time needed to abuse the child.

    This is an interesting one

    Stockholm Syndrome :

    It is not unusual for the child to develop feelings for the predator and desire their approval and continued acceptance. They will compromise their innate ability to decipher good and bad behavior, ultimately justifying the criminal’s bad behavior out of sympathy and concern for the adults welfare. This is often compared to Stockholm Syndrome – when victims become attached emotionally to their captors.

    Nobody can deny even his moron fans that Jackson was a textbook pedophile.

  61. Alison says:

    Timbuktu that was MOST interesting indeed, but to cover yourself I advise you print the source of your information.

    Unfortunately, it appears MJ really did meet the textbook criteria for a pedophile. Still doesn’t mean he WAS one 100 percent for sure, (I acknowledge he was acquitted of all charges) but by golly gosh .. it’s suspicious!

  62. shelly says:

    Alison,

    He went on holidays with the Cascio’s brothers without his wife but he was with the parents. You also forget there were girls with him and not only the sisters of the boys. There was girls like Amanda Porter.

    The textbook criteria is just an indication. There are plenty of people like that who are not pedophile. It just could be a nice guy trying to help a kid because he felt sorry for him.

    • shelly says:

      I also wanted to say if you read the testimonies of the 2005 trial MJ didn’t really correspond ot the textbook criteria. Janet Arvizo saw lawyer to settle with him 6 months before she met him (everything is in the official transcript). He met them in August 2000 and had no contact with them between 2001 and the Bashir interview. If you read the transcript he actually didn’t want to speak to them. He was never left alone with the kids, even Gavin said that to the social worker. According to Cascio, he didn want to be left alone with the kids because of the 1993 allegation.
      By the way we have no stories of others kids between 1993 and 2005. The only thing we had is people like LMP, Frank Cascio and the bodyguards who said there were no others kids involved. In the 2005 trial there was nobody from the prosecution who was able to explain what happened during more than 10 years. It’s a big gap for a serial pedophile. The Francia story was at the beginning of the nineties and it was story made up by the police. If you read the transcript he made an accusation after the police told him others kids were going to die of a drug overdose if he didn’t made an allegation.

      By the way the others kids all testify nothing happened and they were still close to him at the time of his death including their parents.

  63. Alison says:

    Shelly, you say he went on holiday with these kids but their “parents were there”. You say he didn’t want to be left alone with the children after the allegations of ’93, etc? Okay, but you can’t see that this in itself is incredibly strange? I have no idea of your age or whether or not you have children, but think about this for a minute – what do you think the average person would think, particularly the average parent, if a 40 yr-old man asked if he could go on holiday with their children but requested that they (the parents) also be there because he has been accused of pedophilia once before? Seriously, how do you think that would go down? How many right-thinking parents do you think would say “Okay kids, pack your bags because we’re all going on holiday with this man!”?? To me, if the parents agreed to such an arrangement it’s only because they were willing to potentially pimp out their kids to a suspected pedophile. Sorry, but I can’t see it any other way.

    According to what LMP told Randy Tarraborelli, Michael planned these “holidays” months in advance – a trip to Paris here, a jaunt to Bermuda there, and always with small boys. He’s got that Neverland ranch; children accompanying him on tour; he’s constantly visiting hospitals and doing work for children’s charities, but still, he has to go on holiday with children as well .. why?? If he’s so worried about being accused of pedophilia again, then why plan holidays with little boys in the first place? Why not just go on holiday with .. I don’t know .. his wife??

    As far as him being a serial pedophile, I personally think it’s possible he WAS a serial pedophile but that he was very adept at “looky but no touchy”. I think years of having “pretty” boys around him trained him in self control. However, like any sexual proclivity, every now and again the temptation would become to much and he would have to act out and actually make physical contact with a boy or two. Of course this is just a theory, but to me it’s a very plausible one. And I do think it’s suspicious that both of his accusers (Jordie and Gavin) were 13 yr-old boys with slim builds, dark eyes and dark hair. Could this not be a preferred “type”?

  64. shelly says:

    Alison

    You missed the point. The Cascio parents were his friend for more than 10 years. What I wanted to say is he went on holidays with friends who happened to have kids. He was very close to the whole family. Franck Cascio said sometimes MJ came to his parents house when he wanted to have some normality in his life. He said he asked LMP to go with them but she refused.

    If you read the trial transcript he stopped being closed to kids after the allegation. The only kid he became close to was Gavin. For Gavin, you have to remember his mother tried to settle with MJ 6 months before she met him, she send her kids to acting school to help them lie to the police (a psychiatrist testified she said that when she and her kids lied about being sexually molested by a JC Penney guard).

    Gavin said he saw MJ naked and he was according to him he was totally white. MJ had vitiligo (it’s written in his autopsy). According to his autopys he had a dark skin with whites patches. His lawyer and mom said he looked like a cow. If Gavin really saw him naked he would have said MJ had blotches. There was lots of holes in his testimony. I think you should look at the Azja Prior video. She was one of the witness. By the way the mother called her complaining his family didn’t have acces to Jackson at the same time her kid was allgedly molested. That means MJ was not with her kids at the time.

    When I said he didn’t want to be left alone with the kid I was refering to a night when the kids asked to stay with him. According to Frank Cascio he said he didnt want to be alone with the kids because he was scared of being accused of molestation by the mom. You have to remember that few days before MJ had a meeting with Brett Ratner and Chris Tucker because from what they saw during the shooting of Rush Hour (where the family was invited)they thought he might be introuble because of the mom. Brett Ratner said he was sure she would set him up.

    There is also one more thing I wanted to say, if you read the testimonies you will know there were little girls in Neverland too. There were 3 of them who testified and there were others girls on the defense witness list who were not the sisters. Sean Lennon who spend lots of time with MJ when he was a kid said there were lots of girlrs in Neverland who were very closed to MJ.

    For the Chandlers, there was money involved before the kids made an allegation, his mother testified that. She said herself the father was a very violent man. She admitted they thought having MJ with them would be a good thing because it meant they were not going to have money problem.She was a prosecution witness but she was not a willing witness, she had no choice but to testify.
    2 years after the 1srt allegation, the father filed a 2nd lawsuit. He wanted 60 millions more and an album with songs about the molestation of his son. Jordan asked for legal emancipation.
    I don’t know if he was lying or not but June Chandler testimony is very strange. She admitted she was very close to him.

    Let’s not forget, MJ was investigate by the FBI for 15 years for pedophilia and they found nothing. He was investigated by the LAPD and the SBPD.

    Back in 1994, CNN had an interview with someone from the 2 grand juries and that person said she saw nothing no damaging evidence and no damaging testimonies. There was an article in 1994 from USA Today who said the police coudln’t find evidence against him.

    Jordan Chandler said MJ was circumcized, look at the autopsy, he was not. Jordan said he had blotches but few months before MJ said on Oprah he had vitiligo all over his body for more than 15 years.

  65. shelly says:

    The whole Cascio family was at his funerals. They were all very close to him because the parents treated him like a normal person. If I remember well there was even a TV show where Franck Cascio and his lawyer said the Frank Cascio’s mother was sick because his parents knew MJ very well and it was very hard for them to see him going on trial every day and being more frail each day.

  66. shelly says:

    As for the children going on tour, in fact he invited the whole families to go with him. Even in the prosecution side you’ll find testimonies he was a very lonely guy and it was worse for him on tour that’s why he asked friends to go with him. The parents, who testified for the defense, said they spend hours talking to him almost everyday. They were still in his circle of friend at the time of his death.

  67. Alison says:

    To Shelly,

    Despite being deeply suspicious he was guilty, I have always appreciated that MJ WAS acquitted, and obviously there is a chance he was innocent. If you read my earlier posts you’ll see I have never come straight out and said he was guilty for sure. Furthermore, if what you’re saying is correct, then he was obviously a deeply lonely man and I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. I do wonder though about many aspects of his behaviour – regardless of if he was actually a molester or not – because it was truly strange and seemed to go against the interests of someone who was supposedly worried about being accused of pedophilia again.

    For eg; what was he doing sat there in 2003, hand-in-hand with a 13 yr-old boy, basically bragging to Martin Bashir that the child slept in his bedroom? Are you telling me he had no idea how this was going to look to people after the Chandler scandal ten years earlier? Why even raise the subject of sleeping arrangements with Bashir? If MJ was so worried about being accused of pedophilia again, then he seemed to do everything in his power to make sure it would happen.

    Whatever the real reason behind it, you can’t deny this act was bizarre. If it was just a publicity stunt, then it was certainly a dangerous one (and as we all know, he ended up in court!). If he was innocent, then you have to wonder why on earth he would try to paint himself as suspicious, and if he was guilty, then why the hell would he risk blowing his cover like that? (i.e; by publicly holding hands with a young boy, etc)?

    To me, this does not seem like someone who was worried about being re-accused of molestation, but someone who was prepared to stir up all the old suspicions of ten years earlier just for a cheap shot at the headlines. If nothing else, Michael Jackson was unstable and twisted. He seemed to have no ethics whatsoever when it came to publicity. I thought it was deeply disrespectful to the public (again, even if was innocent) to freak them out and make them suspect he’d been interfering with children. Like I have said a gazillion times, the subject of children and molestation is not something to be made a game of, yet he seemed to be taunting people (including the fans who had stuck by him through the years) with this idea that he might really be a pedophile.

    I also wonder why LMP didn’t wish to go on holiday with him while they were married, and why she told Tarraborreli that MJ planned the holiday to Paris with the Cascio brothers – NOT the Cascio family! History records that she wasn’t on that Paris holiday, so there must have been some reason for it. Even if Michael knew the whole family would be coming, he still made sure there would be time to play with his “friends” (i.e; the boys) which is weird enough. You’d think his top priority would be his wife, and if you want to use the excuse that Michael was just playful and child-like, then why did he bother getting married in the first place? No matter who was actually on the holiday, a grown man running around Paris with fake eyelashes and lipstick on and shooting small boys with a water-gun is creepy behaviour, and MJ should have realised this whether he was actually a molester or not.

  68. Watch me fly Superman says:

    If Michael Jackson wasn’t a paedophile then why did he keep inviting young boys into his home even after all allegations and out-of-court settlements. Surely any grown man would have realised after the first accusation that it is unacceptable to invite young boys into your home and you’re just asking for trouble by doing so, but Jackson didn’t stop. Which proves he had an unhealthy obsession for young boys. And when things went belly up, he just used his money to make his problems go away.

    • Jim says:

      No, Michael Jackson is only guilty of not being a normal guy and he just wanted to give to children what he himself never had as a child but he also related to children better being a child himself inside which is why he kept inviting children to his home. We look at age differences when dating in our society, but what we don’t take into account is immaturity which is why girls want to date older boys for that very reason. However, this is a moot point because the child they claim he molested already confessed that his family was in financial trouble in need of money and did not mean to directly hurt Michael. It’s a no brainer that anyone whose child was really molested would not take a payout instead of retribution by legal prosecution.

  69. Malcolm in the Middle says:

    I honestly believe that if Jackson wasn’t a paedophile he would have changed his ways after the multimillion dollar payment he paid to the Chandler family. But Jackson didn’t he still continued to invite boys to spend unsupervised time alone with him in his bedroom.
    And to me this is just a prime example of a paedophile not being able to control his sexual urges for young boys.

  70. Glosorawhah says:

    Hey everyone, I discovered this link for nudism. It is a brand new site to look at all kinds of nude teenagers, kids, parents that are living a lifestyle together in a nudist society. Can anyone advise me if indeed it is a good website too go to or not. I think it was great cause none of the torrent sites own anything like this.

  71. Jack says:

    @Glosorawhah It seems like that site would be a problem since there are underage children nude and it’s on the web for anyone, including pedophiles to see. I wouldn’t want my family’s (especially my children’s) photos on there and I wouldn’t want to join the site. The fact that children are featured on there makes me very uncomfortable and the thought of visiting quite disturbing.

  72. snl1961 says:

    Karma will get all who take advantage of others and it just took a little to long to get the picece of sheep dip mj but it did finally get the loser didn’t it.

  73. paradais says:

    Karma will also get those who have wrongly accused and slandered innocent people. I thought the law is based on “innocent until PROVEN guilty”. Michael has never been proven guilty and all the rants under the sun suggesting he should have, actually never offer any concrete proof to back up their allegations. For those who have taken the time to study Michael’s interviews, home movies and listen to what those close to him have had to say about him, as well as observe his outstanding humanitarian efforts, it becomes clear Michael’s love for children was based on compassion and empathy, largely it seems, from both his own childhood experiences and his genuine love of fun. Just look at the way he protects children around him in a nurturing way, even from a young age. I think it’s fair to say Michael was scarred from his childhood experiences and was trying to get back the childhood he never had, but that’s all it was in my opinion. Michael was human like the rest of us and made mistakes like we all do, but I don’t think it’s fair to say just because his love for children was different to the average white anglo-saxon cold and distant treatment of children, other than their own, that that constituted some kind of perverse love for them. I think we could all learn from seeing how accepting and loving Michael was of not only children, but of all of humankind in general.

  74. paradais says:

    Michael Jackson wasn’t a paedophile, but he keep inviting young boys and their parents and family members into his home even after all allegations and out-of-court settlements, because he knew what he was doing was innocent and pure. Suffering as he did in his own childhood, undoubtedly caused an over emphasis on children in his adult life. He also saw children as honest and not out to deceive anyone like numerous other vultures who surrounded him. It’s a sad world that doesn’t allow us to enjoy the joy we can gain from innocent children and to love them platonically for this. Why would he leave himself continually open to criminal charge by allegedly repeating known criminal behaviour after his first experience with an allegation? The allegations made against him were never proven. If he had been a paedophile, we would have seen hundreds and hundreds of cases against him, like other well-known paedophiles. Michael was innocent. If anyone has proof, present it or shut up about him being guilty.

  75. Private Leonard Lawrence says:
    If not for the Holocaust the Germans may have suceeded. More accurately said, the gods hands would have been tied and the positive goals of the Third Reich would have dictated triumph. The Holocaust ensured we were delivered into this sick age of societal decay. They sent a clue about the Fourth Reich with the Buffalo Bills comeback against the Houston Oilers wildcard game 1992. Tax havens for US corporations. Some little more than PO Boxes. Greed and immorality have been legalized in the United States. Life’s not fair. I can accept that. I have no choice with the maliciousness the gods have inflicted upon me. The gods dictate low tax rates in Ireland to inflict with the wealth similar to that hurting the US. Expect they sell many of the executives on “earning” with their relocation. Ireland has lost something very important recently, and the numbers who ascend has plummetted. More who entered clone hosting, far less who ascend into heaven. “You’re not going to want to be here (on this planet).” Little good. Why else did this happen to me, placed in that family? All the times the gods deliberately crossed the line further suggests. I’m sure clone hosting is in my future (life). There is a reason why people have “enjoyed” peasantry throughout human history, subject to the god’s whim through natural disasters. Ireland’s Potato Famine is a good example. And even if they used poison to force immigration for war recruiting in the United States doesn’t mean the gods didn’t do it. They just aren’t taking blame. And why white Europeans in America were the first to enjoy wealth and comfort of the United States, with Italians leading the pack. But you should know that, with xtianity feeding right into this problem. A good example of societal decay and how the gods manage their culpability is birth defects. In the past the gods occassionally punished people by divinely creating birth defects in the womb. Now, with the advent of biotechnology, they tempt the mother with “earning” and compell her to take a substance in utero which deforms the fetus dispelling the gods of blame and future compensation. Incidentally, the use liberal policies to pay for these individuals, ensuring a lifetime wasted, for they have no hope for progress. Too often in the past they were mercifully killed and brought back without this handicap, allowing them a chance to achieve progress. The gods are washing their hands of culpability. The gods are washing their hands of Planet Earth. Desecrate the gods. Compromised their integrity, claiming it was “temptation” instead of blatant lies. Now I don’t want to bother writing a desecration paragraph, trying to capture how you use positioning as a cloak, enabing you to execute your unholy will. I was pushed into everything in this life and I would bet the same is true in the last. But what the fuck, someone had to be the sacrificial lamb. Immoral. Dirty, immoral whore motherfuckers. The gods are not pure, not in things they say and not in things they do. They will use “temptation” to achieve their goals then try to desceive people about its intent. Gods have no no genetalia. Share their ultra-extreme conservative views on sex, how they use society to promote sexual temptation, poisoning the minds and bodies of the disfavored. Throughout human history women have been the enforcers of decency, and it has worked very well among those not grossly disfavored (Italian, etc). Now that they have embraced so many male sexual charecterisitics everything this structure has desinigrated. As people learned of the gods methodology in the 20th century the gods made things more difficult to understand with liberalism and preditory “earning” behavior. With the advent of this Situation people have learned much more, and the gods willexact a price for this knowledge. Perhaps that will be the deterioration into immoral behavior, as we witness in my life, or perhaps a different way to make progress more difficult. Unit 731:::TSUSHOGO was a clue from the gods about this Situation dating way back to World War II. They used their positioning to hide these Japanese atrocities, and blamed me for burying the Chinese Holocaust. TSUSHOGO says something:::It speaks to the responsbility the Italains had for WWII, the Holocaust and for those people’s involvement in the intentional destruction and exploitation of my life, both for the god’s REAL reason and their positioning’s reason, buried with their “respectable” multinational corporation client list. Budget problems. Cut the military. Bring them home and end the wars. Let these countries experience self-determination and decide their own future. Didn’t we learn this lesson in Vietnam??? Unfortunnately, the gods use the United States as one of their tools, using the spread of democracy to level the playing field and prepare the planet for a global event. So many people don’t care about global warming. They don’t care about the Federal deficit/debt (outside of partisanship) and they don’t care earning $400k for an $80,000/year job will eventually bankrupt the country. They have awarded themselves $400k pay and retirement packages, loading up their friends on the payroll during the boom 90s through the real estate bust while all services which the program were intended to fund now get cut to pay for it. These people are often common public university labor. Not Ivy League, not private university. This labor isn’t good enough to command the salaries they are earning. And they understood this when they applied to the public university they settled on. You can’t expect a top-tier salary with a second-rate education. In addition, public employment has earned the label of being “recession-proof” jobs, a benefit which was taken into consideration with lower pay packages as compared to corporate. These are the people who will be here in the United States when bankruptcy is declared and society deteriorates into chaos. And they will deserve the anarchy which ensues. Continuing the push for privatization, reinforced and supported recently with enormous public sector salaries and retirement packages. Once achieved the gods will utilize the corruptive predisposition of the private sector economy, as seen with the sub-prime/bailout fiasco, to initiate economic catastrophy and initiate the bankruptcy proceedings of the United States. Whether the cure for cancer/diseases or the permanant resolution of economic misery, before the gods remove these motivations to pray we will experience an inordinate deluge of each element, with economic misery being perhaps the dissallusion of the united States with bankruptcy. The gods used the Italians to ruin life in the 20th century. The gods used the Italians to ruin life in A.D. with The Church. The Church controlled Western Civilization. As the largest land owner in Europe they controlled the monarchies. The Italian men who ran the Church were responsbile for slavery, crack babies and thug life/drive-bys, revenge for African invasion and rape of Italy. They created religious and social discontent through the Church, ultimately leading to the disfavored dumping ground known as the United States. Color photographs shortly after the 4.16.06 San Francsico Earthquake found. They deserved it. Just like New Orleans deserved it. Sadly San Francisco was used to set up the Italian dominance, eliminating the diverse business/banking interests and replacing it with Gianinni’s Bank of Italy. Of course the fires were instrumental in ensuring complete rebuilding. Imagine how the gods sold the Italians this, and compare it to how they sold them on preparation for WorldWarII. Expect the gods have instructed AI to organize the universe so planets mature and descend while the gods can give them their full attention during their period of planetary devolution, and claims of heirarchy are yet another lie. Says something frightening, doesn’t it? I am NOT the Fourth Reich. ONE THING. Deliver ONE THING you promised. All these people did everything you told them for DECADES. You have strung them all along. The gods are liars, and you’re all going to be CHEATED. Abortion is part of the decay inflicted by the gods in the latter half of the 20th century as we approach the Apocalypse:::: – Free sex – Explosion in gay sex – Abortion – Legalized greed/immorality – The internet. Whereas TV was a phenominally destructive new temptation on the landscape it doesn’t hold a candle to the internet. Some people will waste their whole lives. And its timing was deliberate. They think they are going sometime during/at the end of this life, and disregard the poor souls who are left behind. “Anger wears a crown of thorns.” Pitch Jesus to Jew elders as revenge for Temple? They didn’t know about the god’s intent for xtianity to spread to Europe, ruining cultures throughout the continent, enabling revenge known as the Holocaust. “It’s too late to pray.” Sign of Woodbridge Church Kansas. And it may be true. Examine pimps who prostitute 10 year old girls in the ghetto. Of course, if you want even a shred of a chance to save yourself, on that rare occassion the Buffalo Bills did experience the Fourth Reich and realized a comeback. Although I requested the elimination of Standard Time and remain year-round on Daylight Savings, the gods did extend Daylight Savings by a couple of weeks on each end. I also suggested the Olympics split into every two years rather than every four years as was tradition. You see with the Prince concerts in 2011. Doesn’t matter though, because positioning is all the gods are concerned with, and they’re GOING to enforce it. Men are the ones who create evil on Earth. It is the choices they make which enslave their souls to hell. This is the test. Good god says a ceiling on time for everyone (see below). Evil god still gives hope for immortality to people who subscribed to preditory behavior:::Immortality if you are right versus a couple centuries partying at best even if you change now. Due to institutional evil the closer we get to The End the more evil everyone incurrs (with individual variation due to behavior) which limits the time for everyone. Probably the children who fix their problems and ascend into heaven as well. Experiencing the evil of modern life in the 20th century costed them, for which limits are placed. They are not the same as their innocent peasantry ancestors from the Old World. You people have fucked up bad by not getting out before the 20th century. Just because the gods have to break some eggs doesn’t mean they are evil. As management there are hard decisions that must be made. But they used this omelette and sold it to people as temptation, who went out and did things they shouldn’t have done thinking being preditory was the way to “earn” their way into heaven. “If it’s like that then I’m dead.” That’s your choice. But when you come back you will have a fresh start, just as you did in this life, able to build something positive if you go the right way. The gods do this intentionally. I recommend you get a head start and begin building for it now instead of continuing to create problems that will make sucess even harder to obtain. It is as simple as recognizing the difference between good and evil and living a decent life with a pure heart and a pure mind. And as you improve your relationship with the gods they will begin to impart wisdom, which can help you understand the task before you. 7 billion in 2011. Only 1 billion in 1800 and 2 billion in 1900. Population explosion is a clue::::The gods are sending everyone back for The End, perhaps the resurrection of the dead referred to in prophecy. There must be some purgatory-like place. Or individual. Like an animal. Now the gods have sent everyone back to try for one final time to fix their problems and ascend into heaven. Avoiding an animal would have been a big positive because those thrust into this decayed enviornment have less of a chance than those who enjoyed the god’s generosity of a slowly decaying enviornment with frightening clues, like the Depression, World at War, the Holocaust, etc. Anything that can get the poeple frightened and praying is a good. thing. Contentment never motivated anyone. As we approach the Apocalypse the gods are removing “wrath of god” material from xtian dogma. As we see wickedness spread throughout the country, like preditory behavior, godlessness, socialo changes, etc, using cable TV and the spread of “Californication” as justification, they changed xtianity, appropriatly with Catholicism first. xtianity has changed radically in the 20th century, and everyone should be mindful of the way it was, because the people are in a process of slipping out of god’s favor into a state of Damnation, from which the vast majority will never survive. They used to scare people and make them too afraid to make mistakes. Now people aren’t afraid of anything and don’t think twice about doing something wicked and evil which will hurt their chances. Never forget::The Gods have created positioning to conceal their true intent in each and every dyanmic we see in society. We truely live in The Matrix:::There is the way things look and there is the God’s REAL reason for doing things. Employment charity:::Was W able to do his job as President? I suspect there are many frat-boy types who couldn’t or wouldn’t study nor do the work necessary so they gained this “benefit” telepathically. This could have been extended to their professional life as well::In most of these cases they don’t have what it takes to do their jobs. It is temptation which buys their confidence for life, ensuring no progress is made. I think employment charity is FAR more common than people may believe. Another example how they tempted people in this manner is the procurement of sexual relations. Keep raping these poor girls. You’re going to end up as one in your next life. Capitalism is evil because of the exploitative nature, illustrated with this Situation. So many are confused and believe money is a sign of the God’s favor, but it is a tool the Gods use to test people, for it effectively compells people into evil behavior. Muslims are correct:::Earning interest is evil. Unlike war, which is a temporary period where the citiens incurr evil due to the decisions of the leaders, capitalism by its very nature incurrs evil for those who participate into perpetuity, an “institutional” method of incurring evil for the disfavored who engage in it. Inherant in earning interest is the exploitation of others, capitalizing on assets and exploiting the workforce for profit. Understand the destructive nature of this element of evil we call the United States, for it spreads this cancer under the guise of “democracy” throughout the world. Look for other institutional evil as related to the United States because as the land of disfavor castoff rejects there will be plenty of examples. It is the essence of life in the United States, and it is not by accident:::Like the ghetto, people with extreme disfavor have many more temptations and hurdles to overcome. Overconsumption of the Earth’s resources is due to the same reason and why the Unkited States wastes so much energy. Examine my examples. They illustrate the God’s reverse positioning used to confuse and disceive people who have made big mistakes in past lives. I illustrate a certain way to think. If you doubt what I teach, if this is not your time to learn please at least completely understand this way of thinking, because when your time does come you will be able to refer to it and you will begin to see the God’s pattern within the context of their positioning. Nobody is going to save you. Christianity is a lie. And only through thinking correctly will you have a real chance to begin doing the right things. Typical for the young, they become corrupt and remain ignorant for a period of time in their lives, typically until their children are raised and grown and/or retire from their profession. Poetic justice ensures they receive a similar experience when reincarnated. Fighting these wars hurts everyone because we all pay for the sins of our leaders, and by participating these ignorant youth make it possible for these events to occurr. So even if you are against the war, since you are a citizen you incurr because of the evil your country is engaged in. And there is no getting around it. Artifical Intelligence is one of the God’s tools, all of which are used as temptation. And it will always test the young with this temptation of “earning”, sadly often leading to a lifetime of corruption. Students becoming angry and violent in the UC protests. Beggining to remind me of labor riots of the 20th century. We all know what’s happening here:::These white men at the top have voted themselves $400k pay and retirement packages like the $340k retired fire chief, loading up their friends on the payroll during the boom 90s through the real estate bust while all services which the program were intended to fund now get cut to pay for it. Incidentally, corporate sucessfully transistioned to cheap labor in nearly ALL “muscle” industries. Why should fire be any different?? It was temptation, and the Gods are going to make them pay for it. Unfortunately, so will everybody else::: Reincarnation is very real. It is OUR national debt. And odds are you’re all going to be reincarnated back into the United States::Like the ghetto, you have to “earn” your way out. And it is our warming planet. Self-inflicted emmissions as their justification, the Gods are doing it to us to send a clue. And, as with all their clues, it will be short-lived. Anger about Messerlee. Understandable. They need to understand this man was pushed into the offense. Cops have been getting away with killings like this for a long time. Blacks in the South know this all too well. Each time they were all confident the Blue Shield would protect them, and it did. The difference is in many IF NOT MOST of these cases they were rogue cops who the Gods tempted. They did it intentionally thinking they were “earning”, knowing they would get away with it. Contradictory to appearances, they were the ones whom the Gods disliked, while the Messerlees of the world who get caught are being punished, feedback reserved for those whom are still qualified in the eyes of the Gods. There are those in the ghetto whom are singled out, targets of the community whom everybody hates. The rogue cops in the South who are guilty of these kind of killings have been reincarnated into roles like this. It’s just one of the clues the Gods offer to the community. Lucky for those preditors the ghetto has been an ignorant community, but I think that might be changing. Of course there could be anoher possibility:::::Due to the history and resulting legacy of hatred for the Gods, since I am guarenteed a spot on the next Planet Earth I will be the original “bad seed”:::The Lucifer-figure of the next reality. Unlike Christian dogma, he may just represent the solitary target of the God’s ire early, a disgruntled asshole who pissed the Gods off, the proverbial “apple” of the next reality, beginning the process which leads planets to where we are today. A crucial figure in any planet’s history, he represents the “beginning of the end”. People, especially liberals give W a very hard time. Don’t forget what I say:::Everything today is both good and evil. The Gods have positioned it as such as we have become increasingly disfavored, confusing the enviornment. Republicans and conservatives as well, only they fall more on the good side while their adversaries fall more on the evil side, quite contrary to the God’s positioning. Yes, W’s evil is illustrated in the United State’s efforts in Iraq, and the “Red State”r’s who believe we were “earning” are among the worst of them. If conservatives fall on the side of good, Fox News falls on the side of evil. They pander to the type of trash my brother is, the kind of trash who thinks their war mongering efforts “earn” for them and all others who think like them. Anyways, it is positioned that W trashed the economy before he left office. Selfish it didn’t happen while he was in office, granted, but economic turmoil is a motivator. It’s not cancer, mind you, but many have begun praying hard because of their experinces in this event, and it says something about those affected as opposed to those sheltered from affect. One day just as they will allow vaccines to diseases, especially AIDS, encouraging deviacy the likes which hasn’t been seen since the 70s, they will allow cures for cancer, MS, COPD, alcoholism, etc. Women’s diseases will be last. Just as research into women’s diseases receive the least amount of funding so is it justified their cures come last, and both for the same reason:::They have the most favor, and the Gods use their diseases as a motivator to pray and find the path. As such they get God’s benefit as long as they are willing to offer it. I suspect many attempts have begun already, but as time goes on the Gods will test people’s religious resolve with an insurmuntable positioning stating Christianity is the one true religion. We’ve seen their efforts in Latin America, in the Philippines and most recently in Vietnam, India and the demonizing of Islam. They intend to test your resolve as Muslims, for those who sell out and flee to Christianity will be subject to their positioning. Blacks are the most disfavored of all people. We see it in their temptation-ridden culture, which the Civil Rights “assimilation” has allowed, in their sexual behavior. The Gods used their position of the Italians to do their dirty work, implimenting the crack epidemic, the black civil war of the 80s and 90s, AIDS in Africa, “pimp” subculture, etc. The Gods created this positioning of Italian’s preditory behavior on Africans to reflect their own disfavor towards that group, allowing them to get what they want without accepting culpability, convieniently. As such, come the Apocalypse those who abandon their true selves, their religion and their dedication to it will be victims in this deceptive Christian theater. Blacks that opt for the “easy way out” will ironically lose their lives in the Apocalypse. Only those who remain true to their religion, its strict methods and lifestyle, and resist the outside temptations stating their are going the wrong way will emerge out of the carnage of The End of Time. They are highly suspectable to temptation and they need their religion to help them be strong and resist it. They will be better people for it and superior to the Christians in the end. This is the life of utmost importance. People need to listen, understand and learn from me and make the changes I prescribe. Without, they will have no chance at ascending into heaven before the Apocalypse, and the only hope they will have is 1000 years with Jesus, which is no sure thing. Even so, assuming they are rewarded with 1000 years with Jesus, they will be offered all manners of temptations, for it will be THE Big Party at The End, and if they don’t address these problems now, while they have this chance to learn this activity is evil, before society declares it socially acceptable, they will be granted some fraction of 1000 years and be disposed of thereafter, when the party “dies down”, pardon the pun. Also, disgusted by their behavior, the Gods have created a subculture which celebrates partying in the black community, guarenteeing that “requirement” is satisfied so they are never “invited”. Only those people who never began the temptations or who addressed these issues and remedied the problems will move on to the next Planet Earth. And we are still approximately 4 lifetimes away, most of which I expect to be revelry years::A population either getting their party now or groomed for a short stay after the Apocalypse. By that time even the most conservative Christian will be tested to see if they can establish this destructive legacy of revelry. Move on to a new Planet Earth. This is their second chance::::They have to start over. Either they ascend into heaven from their planet of origin or they don’t ascend as all, and that’s how the system works. It’s a very small population which exists at the dawn of agrarianism because most have sccumbed to temptation and failed to achieve their second chance on the new Planet Earth. I have said diseases, such as cancer, won’t be going anywhere, no matter how much money is thrown at it, no matter how much money is raised. These diseases are important tools used by the Gods to help people do the right thing:::Cancer has compelled more than a few women to begin praying and behave appropriately. In this environment of decay, the Gods will eventually eliminate these motivations one day. Positioning states cures/vaccines are positive developments which display life is improving. Unfortunately, this is just another example of how the Gods utilize “reverse positioning” which has been very effective in promoting deceptive elements in society, such as democracy, Christianity and Californication, Hollywood being the primary tool used to spread the message of The Beast. Similarly, other motivations which have complelled people to turn to the Gods for solice will begin to disappear as well::::Economic recession/turmoil, Unlike the Christian Bible’s version, the Apocalypse will not be preceeded by ruin and desperation. Just the opposite, there will be peace and personal satisfaction leading to The End, ensuring the Gods can control the group selected for the Second Coming event. The irony of the Apocalypse:::: People told not to follow the Second Coming, who fail to recognize the urgency of the moment and die in the Apocalypse because of it. The Gods will account for people who do not sell out to Christianity, however difficult due to temptation. It will become difficult to remain Muslim in this environment. It will be positioned that everyone except Christians are The Damned and will die come The End. This positioning, and how all this goes down come the Apocalypse, will just be the God’s attempt at testing people with temptation, for it will matter in The End to those whom suceed. Christianity is responsible for African slavery. The Italian men who ran the church set out to gain revenge for the invasion of Italy and, still the largest landowner in Europe, used their considerable clout with the thrones of England to achieve this. The Gods used Christianity to destroy the cultures of Europe and around the world, replaced with the patriarchal standard which it imposed. The Gods used temptation to compell the Italians to do their dirty work for them, punishment for evils of black people, and that extened into the 20th century with Civil Rights, the crack epidemic, gang membership/the “thug life” and even AIDS in Africa, a recycling of the biotechnology product originally intened for the gay community. As with everything there is always a real reason behind their positioning, and in both cases it is punishment for deviate behavior. Being “schitzo”, the internal battle between good and evil, is a deteriorating generational issue that is dying off, much like I illustrated for punishment below::: This new generation, who were the grandparents of their parents, are an early evil generation and one whom became corrupted and fell for societal temptation readily available for them and every generation of the masses thereafter. Their parents came before that generation, the agrarian masses, God-fearing, absent for the temptation offerings of early modern society (Roaring 20s vs. 60s/70s). As a result whereas Dad has great internal conflict I refer to as schitzo because of his connection to his past his children will be less so, perhaps far less so depending on grade of sins in their prior life, decreasing generationally until they have all become Godless, immoral monsters. “Californication” – The tool the Gods use to brainwash the people, amplifying disfavor level as we approach the Apocalypse by merely fitting into society. Poisoning their brainwashed minds…corrupted by society, AI convinces people “earning” is the way, compelling them into evil. This is falling for temptation, while Californication ensures at least a minimal amount of damage, ensuring a minimal amount of generational progress towards the Apocalypse. I demand another. I have signed off. Give the disfavored another and without all the defensive tactics, cowards. Pick out someone else, do this again and discard this Situation. The people who have learned were going to learn anyways. They’re not the ones who need it. The disfavored need it, people like my family, too far gone for any hope at ascention before The End, and they should be allowed moments if not periods of clarity before the decision is made about them. “Decay is inherent in all component things. Work out your own salvation with diligence.” – Buddha I have explained how the gods are phasing out punishment as we get closer to the Apocalypse. Disfavor levels dictate there is insufficient time to repair their problems, relegating people to the Second Coming event. I mentioned how old timers today may experience hell, albeit a “toned down” experience, consistant with the elimination of teaching of Hell in typical Christian educations. I suspect the same is true in the context of prison:::The gods maintain a contstantly decreasing number of punitive intsitutions in case there is a need. But, over time they will be eliminated and the entire system will be quite amicable. Look for this pattern elsewhere as well, for the Gods are eliminating punishment throughout in preparation for the Apocalypse, for it is no longer necessary. The Gods send clues about this situation frequently. Eddie of Iron Maiden. Consider the cover of the album “Number of the Beast” and how it was used to create pathologies. Closure of Fitsgeralds Reno/getting kicked out of Fits LV 1990 for “counting cards” after 5 minutes and $20:::Accusation of the innocent. WWII’s other holocaust:::Unit 731:::tsushogo. Tsushogo was a clue from the Gods illustrating their positioning long before it began. Incidentally, the used it to hurt the Chinese and position against future Japanese sucess by burying their atrocities. The Concorde. The Czech automobile Yugo. 1990 blackjackat Binion’s Horseshoe/Rounders/current poker phenominah. Just as with any of the prophets, the Gods use me as temptation to compensate. This is our temptation in today’s modern superficial, sensationalistic enviornment. Ken Jennings. Million-dollar slot (add a zero to every number on the wheel you cheap bastards). 12.08.20 & 12.8.80 (last birthday). KGC. King Tut 2005-2011. More below::The Gods have created an endless list over the last four+ decades. This Situation is a monster. They have shared that when the change is initially made they alter the DNA with Artificial Intelligence, ensuring it is not the same person. Now depending on their level of activity the Gods switch out for new individuals, ie presidents switched frequently. They say they bring the (m)father’s DNA when it is time to conceive, so it is strategically important who is in there for the conception of the children. The same may not be true for typical activity:::the Gods may alter the DNA upon initial clone hosting but it may be a general change. Conception requires specific DNA. And? So? So there are no Rockafellers. This was how the Gods eliminated their true importance, for now they are little more than lowly English peasants, ironically. Nothing is ever going to change. Now the case can be made that far more men are invited into clone hosting than women, and since lineage is matrilineal it would rather follow that blood line instead. All it takes is one. But I wonder if it even matters. Those who learn and are wise enough to refuse the offer of clone hosting still have to repair their relationship with the Gods and hope for a better placement in their next life, one which certainly won’t involve being a billionaire. Whether real Rockafellers or DNA alternates is of no concequence. Their goal is still ascention, which takes work and dedication. Being/thinking you’re capitalism royalty invites a host of temptations, including grandeur and self-importance, which are all damaging to a good relationship with the Gods. If only they can overcome the temptations that money brings, like ample stunning women and Scarface piles of cocaine. The consequence of clone hosting is the loss of ascention into heaven. The best they can hope for is 1000 years with Jebus in a temptation-infested enviornment where one can have anything they want. Just as the victims of Mengele’s “showers which clentch you of your life” were the Italians who conceived and implimented WorldWarII’s Blitzkreig, so do I think the unholy alliance between evil Japan and good Germany is the cause of the “Siamese Twins” Mengele experiment:::”sewen together, joining heads, just a matter of time before you rip yourselves apart”. World War II, the Holocaust were revenge for Germany’s 5th century AD invasion of the dying Roman Empire. Those at the top are the ones who suffered the worst because of their intimate involvement. Perhaps it was the godfather who experienced the “frozen water burial” “crack your limbs”. Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare… How was the Holocaust positioned? What did the Italians have against the Jews? The Romans destroyed Temple. Perhaps Joshua… What is the God’s real reason behind WWII? Punishment? For what? The Crusades? It was a fight supporting evil Christianity, in defense of evil against their religious superiors. For this the Germans should pay. Punished for being war mongers. Go ahead and ignore this. You won’t ever defy and do the right thing anyways. “These came to life again and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4. Reference to reincarnation? I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone who has ever been on Planet Earth still is, outside of those who have ascended as children, and it is evident by the population explosion, the Apocalypse being a true “clearinghouse” event in this planet’s history. Don’t forget to try space coke in the blender and have sex with as many stunning bitches as your goddamn dick will allow, because this place is going to be ALL about temptation, and you will ALL be groomed for the party with lifetimes of legacy under your belt. Some decent god-fearing people will suceed at resisting temptation, but the Gods will facilitate temptation. It will be the rare individual who makes the transistion in an enviornment where you can have anything you want. I believe those who survive these temptations must return to an Earth-like planet, for they have to begin again. Ascention must ocurr from planet of origin. “Going along” will “earn” your invitation to the Second Coming of Christ. You will be reincarnated until that age comes, buy you a mere 1000 years and cost you your chance at immortality, simply because you bought into evil as “earning” and subscribed to the big lie. Not everyone will be going. They will tell some of you to ignore the Second Coming event, and it will cost you your life, ironically. Blacks, on the other hand, will be asked TO folllow the Second Coming, simply because as an Italian religion blacks who pursue Christianity will die in the Apocalypse because of it. Never doubt that Muslims are your superiors. These people are dedicated to their religion while your population have abandoned churches in droves. We no longer see orphanages for good reason::::The state would be forced to use professionals, experts in their field, to devise standards these facilities would apply to raising the children. These standards would illustrate ideal rearing goals which could set a positive example for all in society. Instead of enjoying the best possible childhood learning experience, these grossly disfavored children are instead subject to the preditory evil of the guardian with whom they are placed. This is an outstanding example of reverse positioning and how the Gods created a society where evil appears not only good but also socially acceptable. Civil Righs is a similar issue. Segregation in today’s age would command full funding for black universities and full respect for well established multiple black journalism and media outlets, not this integrated white media cancer where blacks eat what they are fed. What people allow the Gods via positioning matters. Black civil rights is a good example:::: Yes, there may still be a black talk show parading the myriad of black relationship ugliness out for the world to see, but there would also be good black programming that was healthy and worthwhile. As it is, the God’s Italian positioning dictates only poison for blacks via the white media, and the healthy black programming doesn’t exist because of it. Such is the aftermath of Civil Right’s assimilation. Christians have mistakenly believed the perception of the Biblical definintion of The Beast as a person. I suggest The Beast instead refers to a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. In fact the Gods offer a geographic clue suggesting this, like so many others they offer around the globe, to help people understand::: Mt.Diablo, “The Devil” is the “eye” of The Beast, the EastBay shoreline as the upper jaw/incisors while the peninsula is the grinding lower jaw. Witness the disturbing upturned smile in the gullet, represented my Silicone Valley. The fact than man has shaped much of the shoreline in the 20th century is a testiment to the God’s refusal to accept any culpability for its devistation. Gold Rush, counter-culture, alternate lifestyle acceptance, etc. The Beast was used to promote social decay throughout the 20th century and beyond. Difficult to perceive in the current age, one can understand their impacts from a historical perspective. Another feature which the Gods offer as a clue is very foreboading and ominous. Mt. Zion is a mountain to the north of Diablo and one which has a working quarry at its base. Consistant with the decay we experience in society, Mt. Zion is being eaten away, slowly stripped of its resources, until one day paradise will be gone forever. There was a time when once the Gods “divinely” inspired punishment, where the act was inflicted by the hand of God. They were punishing people and accepting the culpability arising, maintaining societal integrity. Now, in the 20th century and beyond, the Gods tempt man to inflict this punishment, selling them on “earning”, incurring no culpability in the process. The result is social decay and deterioration of mankind’s favor in the eyes of the Gods leading to the Apocalypse. The Man in The Moon is yet another of the God’s clues, and it illustrates the favor the Gods could bestow upon us if we behave appropriately. Conversely, there is also a clue in the dark side of the Moon:::A side we never see and is hidden from view. Concealed by their positioning, this represents the Gods punishment when the people disobey their rules dictating the meaning of a decent life. The Italian peninsula is very pronounced as it juts out into the Medietereanean. Considering the shape it is quite obvious they were the primary targets of the post-IceAge/Straight of Gibralter/Noah’s Flood disaster. Considering the shape of the boot and how Sicily “caught” the surge, the resulting tsunami inundated the entire southern portion of the peninsula, killing everything and perhaps covering even the highest land masses. In the 20th century the Italians were convinced entering clone hosting was ascention into heaven, and their success was a recruiting tool, just as the Holocaust was for the Jews, only duress is far less damaging. The women have God’s favor, and when the women do all the evil, as was the case in my family, this serves to “equalize” the playing field, ensuring no wisdom comes to this family as they grow older. As a result they never make progress and achieve the lowest possible placement when reincarnated. Couple years ago a story in the media how girls in Bayview-Hunter’s Point were going into puberty at a progressively younger age, as young as age 7. A very bad sign::::Early cut-off. It draws the boys attention and they subsequently make sexual mistakes, very similar to what typical people experience nearly a decade later. When they “turn” people on and start telepathically talking to them with this technology is very similar::The end of their chance. They segment families, convince them “earning” is the way, etc. I tell people to examine the change between when they were children and after they began to hear this technology in their head. It is the difference between good and evil. I understand people’s confusion:::They literally hear “God” in their head, as opposed to what was taught to them in some church’s classroom. But this technology is one of the God’s tools, and much like their other tools, clone hosts and prophets (see below), they use them as temptation. Instead of helping them, missionaries are actually HURTING people, inflicting them with westernization and Christianity. Whereas some may have seen up to a full 1% of their children ascend into heaven you pathetic white Americans can’t even muster a fraction of that, and your perceived good intentions decrease that rate even further. These people have a better chance of ascending into heaven, and Americans unwittingly are being used to reduce/eliminate this chance with their misled good intentions which deteriorate into preditory intentions as they begin to understand this, maximizing the damage they incurr from the Gods. COMPILATION PARAGRAPH:::: This IS the event. I am the telepathic prophet. There may have been no other way in today’s modern age:::Use popular culture as temptation and keep teachings primarily telepathic. The Gods must be willing to allow Artificial Intelligence to act as my “bible”, repeating all teachings I have made for future generations. This will ocurr but I am afraid only among the miniscule minority “haves”, leaving the “have-nots” lost in ignorance and cast into Damnation::We are going to have a real, full-blown Apocalypse. Part of this societal deterioration is cloaked in the way society functions::::Two-parent working households, rushing around, constantly occupied. Your children NEED TO SIT AND LISTEN TO THEIR THOUGHTS, FOR THIS IS the age WHEN THEY GODS COMMUNICATE THE TRUTH. Much as with the celestial event which occured that day on Ocean Beach, they say when I die there will be some final clue to the people suggesting my importance. Perhaps a “Star of Bethlehem” type of event. They say some children see a halo on my head in various brightness. These are the children who have a chance to ascend. America and Christianity synonymous::::Punishment for Europeans. You don’t want to grill the Gods as to why something is viewed as negative or disapproved of. The Gods have placed many things in today’s society which facilitate temptation, and you can trust anything that varies from tradition or orthodoxy would be viewed as such. ——————————————————————— The voice you hear in your head is the power of the Gods. It’s a remote technology, like a computer, perhaps functioning on some frequency, and it can listen and talk to everyone in the universe simultaneously. What the Gods taught the children was the truth:::God is everywhere, and this is what they meant. I will remind you of another principle you learned as a child:::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good. Even the antient Gods don’t have the ability to listen to people’s thoughts themselves. They taugh we were all made in their image:::I expect they need this “Artificial Intelligence” they created to relay what people think. It is a tool, and the Gods use their tools to test people with temptation:::It will role-play people in your life:::Parents, friends, spouses, and employers, all in an attempt to test people with temptation. Ironically, it does the very same thing to those people whom you think you’re hearing, except in that individual’s unique way:::We are all “managed” by the God’s technology. But this agent of the Gods can do more than just communicate. It can force thoughts into people’s heads, force behaviors onto their bodies. It can turn healthy cells in your body into cancerous cells. It is absolute power. And this is just the beginning. Obedience is not the answer. This is the brain-less response and the easy way out. You’ve done everything you have been told for years and it never bought you ANYTHING. Your parents did what they were told and it didn’t buy them anything. Your grandparents did everything they were told and now they’re dead, reincarnated as lesser life forms, perhaps even into America’s deranged, violent ghettos. People think they are not responsible when Artificial Intelligence tells them to do something. They offeed a clue with the Holocaust AND with Watergate:::Defy authority and do the right thing. In earlier decades this obedience may have been out of fear, as so often in Germany, but that era is long over. To maximize damamge the Gods today sell them on “earning” and these people think they will profiteer from their evil. They offer a clue on the Simpsons with Flanders and Skinner. So many ridicule both figures, a testiment to the state of our society. The Gods favor the children most among all the people due to their innocence and purity. But society and the God’s tools recently are corrupting the children at a progressively younger age, a reflection of our collectively increasing disfavor and yet another clue illustrating we live in a increasingly deteriorating environment. Children who sucessfully repair their relationship with the Gods ascend into heaven. This often takes multiple lives of hard work and proper behavior in the face of adversity to achieve. Adults to whom it is offered enter clone hosting instead, thinking they will be ascending into heaven ultimately. The Gods tempt people, selling them as one in the same, but one is good while the other is evil. In their desperation the disfavored subscribe to this temptation, making their task even more difficult than before due to the evil they incurr in the process. And their corruption will cost the disfavored, for they will be reincarnated as a lesser life form into an ever deteriorating world, sucess becoming ever more allusive with each passing life. The hole they’ve dug for themselves is even deeper than the one that existed from their prior lives, ensuring it will take even more time and work to fix their problems with the Gods. And for many there may not be enough time left. Ours is an envionment where evil is perceived to be rewarded while good is punished. As with everything the Gods have a reason for creating this perception:::: People who fall on the good side of the good/evil scale have more favor, and when they do something wrong the Gods punish them BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM TO LEARN. The Gods want them to receive this feedback in hope they make corrections and begin to behave appropriately. The Gods DON’T like evil and refuse to grant this immediate feedback. EVERYBODY pays for what they do wrong, only evil people must wait until the end of this or their next life before they will experience the wrath of the Gods, manifested in their placement as a lower form of life into environments with increased/enhanced temptations, like the United States or its ghettos therein. Sadly, this allows the Gods to position this perception of evil rewarded as temptation, one which they use as an EXTREMELY effective corruptor. Example:::Punishment for gay marriage in Iowa was immediate and painful, a sign of favor of these God-fearing, church-going Midwesterners. The Gods suggest they can create paradise for those with their favor. I argue they create misery for those without:::: Our celebrity culture is temptation. It creates a distraction which consumes people, sometimes for life. Certainly it costs them precious years which could be spent repairing their relationship with the Gods, time that ultimately goes wasted. Do you really think Frank Sinatra lived to be 84 years old? In fact the “Chairman of the Board” had a new crowd to entertain in the late 80s/early 90s. These people are clone hosts. Now, there is no thing as “black and white” with the Gods. This technology they invented is far, far too dynamic. Expect they require most to stay for a period of time, for I suspect actively (knowingly) engaging in this evil incurrs at an accelerated rate as compared to “carte blanche” given regarding successive clone hosts. They remain until they achieve a pre-determined level of disfavor, incurring evil in their misguided celebration of “earning”, at which time they are ultimately reincarnated, perhaps because they eventually learned this truth I am sharing with you and began to repair their relationship or until the Gods became disgusted and sent them back. No, not all celebrities are fake. Expect those who get out early in their career to likely be the real thing. The Gods recruit most for clone hosting when people are young, in their late teens or twenties, when people are eager to hurt others for what they perceive to be the benefits achieved through “earning”. And before they leave they give the Gods “carte blanche”:::”Do anything you want. I give my full approval.” Depending on their level of disfavor the Gods take them to heart. Because of this these people STILL INCUR EVIL FROM THIS LIFE DESPITE BEING REINCARNATED AND LIVING AS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PERSON and living in our temptation-ridden society. And incurring this amount of evil may likely push many over the edge into Damnation. What are the God’s standards for offering clone hosting? Sociobility? Many tactics in various eras are used to gain approval, duress during the Vietnam draft being a good example, one which deteriorated into preditation as mankind’s disfavor grew. They liked Heath Ledger. Not enough to allow him to escape without the evil of “Dark Knight” and the horrific wickedness that was the recruiting tool “Brokeback Mountain”. But now he is out. And irregardless of how old he is now, reincarnated 10, 15 years ago, he now is no longer incurring evil from this life. So many others cannot say the same. This is Planet Reverse Positioning. Sucess IS NOT a sign of favor. It is just a unique temptation targetted towards a different level of disfavor. Considering our roots as peasantry people should be particularly alarmed at this tactic. Clone hosting is like money:::A different level of disfavor and its associated temptation. Money is in better position to learn more quickly than those without, for the associations and wealth-based freedom enables them access to information. Unfortunately, those who fall for this temptation of clone hosting are likely returned to their original lowest level of disfavor once they are reincarnated, punishment for this evil, and they have to start from scratch. Our society’s values are bestowed by (a reflection of) the God’s:::Punitive and reward-based. Contrary to Jesus’s teaching’s you will NOT be forgiven and you have to earn your way into heaven BY BEING RESPECTABLE AND DECENT!!! Not by being evil and wicked. Forgiveness/savior was the primary temptations the Gods used Christianity to create. Middle-America’s anti-Semitic attitudes are a clue regarding Christianity. Europe shaped like a sheep is symbolic for the slaughter that is Christinaity. Christianity is punishment for Europeans. You ALL hate Jews::”They own banking, they control Hollywood and poison our children’s minds, etc etc.”) YET YOU PRAY TO ONE LIKE A GOD!! Dislodge your head from your ass. Must you be chumps your WHOLE LIVES??? There is no such thing as a free ride. Just as you have to earn a living by working so must you earn your own salvation by repairing your relationship with the Gods. As we learned from religious/morality education during our formitable years:::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good. The only savior that will exist in our lives is ourselves. The Gods offer clues in life::::Be it school, work, etc., you have to do the work for yourself and when you do something wrong you get punished. Cheating is a subsegment and speaks directly to the temptation of “priveledge”, one we have seen used effectively when the United States preyed on the disfavored with the so-called “stimulus package”. As like so many of you, Jesus did everything the Gods tempted him with. His legacy of whorism was inherited from his parents:::Mary was no virgin. Rather, she was a prostitute, and when he grew up Jesus met someone like his mother. This is a cruel joke the Gods play on Latinos, similar to the sexual violation and subsequent “missionary work” by the Spanish. Baptism does not allieviate “original sin”. Rather, baptism PLACES original sin by indoctrinating these children into this evil religion, much like circumcision was a method to inflict early damage/mutilation and make (permanant) accention just that much more difficult, another hurdle one must overcome. Body ornamentation (tattoos/piercing), celebrated in Africa and elsewhere among disfavored peoples/cultures, also violates the body the Gods gave us in their image, quite opposite to the positive attitudes the disfavored hold regarding this practice. Like Jesus the Second Coming of Christ will be evil. He will look like a savior in this demented society while the Anti-Christ will speak of a different gospel, one that tries to restore the norms and mores which the Gods originally blessed upon the people which made life decent, looking like a tyrant in the process. He will be viewed as the “bad guy” when really he is the one trying to save the world. There may be a phoney offering, a theatrical production which accurately follows the Book of Revelations. Actually positioning demands it:::::Christianity is positioned to be the one true religion. And those who follow its teachings will have limits imposed ensuring their stay will be minimal, a “consolation prize”, for they don’t think correctly and therefore don’t behave appropriately, or perhaps will be used to colonize the new Planet Earth. This describes many “sinners” in today’s society because they refuse to change their behavior. Christians have mistakenly believed the perception of the Biblical definintion of The Beast as a person. I suggest The Beast instead refers to a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. In fact the Gods offer a geographic clue suggesting this, like so many others they offer around the globe, to help people understand::: Mt.Diablo, “The Devil” is the “eye” of The Beast, the EastBay shoreline as the upper jaw/incisors while the peninsula is the grinding lower jaw. Witness the disturbing upturned smile in the gullet. The fact than man has shaped much of the shoreline in the 20th century is a testiment to the God’s refusal to accept any culpability. Gold Rush, counter-culture, alternate lifestyle acceptance, etc. The Beast was used to promote social decay throughout the 20th century and beyond. Difficult to perceive in the current age, one can understand their impacts from a historical perspective. There was a time when once the Gods “divinely” inspired punishment, where the act was inflicted by the hand of God. They were punishing people and accepting the culpability arising, maintaining societal integrity. Now, in the 20th century and beyond, the Gods tempt man to inflict this punishment, selling them on “earning”, incurring no culpability in the process. The result is social decay and deterioration of mankind’s favor in the eyes of the Gods. Life is a test, and the Gods evaluate people based on their performance. The Gods test people with the temptation for which they are most weak:::: Homosexuals desire sodomy, preditors pursue the hunt, alcoholics crave a drink, junkies jones for dope, etc. Addiction theory is a lie; it is Artificial Intelligence creating the desire, punishment for inappropriate behavior. Ironically, it compells people deeper into the behavior, minimizing hope for recovery. The Gods chose Christianity for Europeans because it is the temptation to which they are most suseptable:::Entitlement. Something for nothing. A free ride. Irresponsible behavior. The United States/Western civilization’s accompanying wealth contributes to this perception. And other people from throughout the world happily subscribe to this punishment designed for Europeans, assuming this legacy once assimilated. Next time you think of Muslims recognize these people are vastly superior to Christians. Whereas many throughout the Christian world no longer attend church and have fallen into Godlessness, the Muslim world worships the Gods for OVER AN HOUR EACH AND EVERY DAY. The Gods created the perception “Italians are stupid.”, ensuring a slow learning curve, to justify using them to accomplish goals throughout the transitional 20th century. It took an extraordinarily long time for them to learn this truth I teach due to this artificial handicap. These people are SO extremely disfavored, but today’s positioning says differently, much to people’s confusion, for they think money is the ultimate sign of favor:::Good food, good music, history of warmongering, Catholics, Christianity HQ, Noah’s Flood event, propensity towards violence, sexual violation by outsiders, mild Meditereanean climate, so many other issues which enhance life/contentment in Italy/Meditereanean and ensure few if any seek more, a necessary step for finding the path and repairing your relationship with the Gods. Contentment never motivated anyone. Money is not a sign of favor::::Wisdom is the true wealth on Planet Earth. I’d also like to remind you the Noah’s Flood event ocurred in the Meditereanean region::::Global sea levels rose with the end of the ice age, Atlantic Ocean broke through the Straight of Gibralter, killing untold millions in the cradle of western civilization. The God’s timed their corruption and sin to correlate this act as punishment. The Italian peninsula is very pronounced as it juts out into the Medietereanean. Considering the shape it is quite obvious they were the primary targets of the post-IceAge/Straight of Gibralter/Noah’s Flood disaster. Considering the shape of the boot and how Sicily “caught” the surge, the resulting tsunami inundated the entire southern portion of the peninsula, killing everything and perhaps covering even the highest land masses. Think about this next time you are deceived by the God’s positioning of Italian wealth. Everyone who failed to ascend and remained on Earth past a certain date will be forced to deal with this positioning::::A ceiling is in place. This serves the God’s goal of minimizing the percentage of potential candidates as society deteriorates, much as “instant gratification” did beginning in the 80s:::It will take multiple lives for the disfavored to fix their relationship with the Gods and ascend, and many have been conditioned not to have the patience for it. Other issues force limits/ceilings upon candidates:::Abortion, homosexuality, promiscuity, Christianity, godlessness, Whether behavior is involuntary or based on freewill depends on one’s level of disfavor, as well as other complex factors:::::May I remind you about the coercitive envionment the Gods created in the 20th century, specifically to create a temptation that few Italians (or their associates) would overcome:::”We’re in control. If you want to be a part of it you’ll do what you’re told.”. Early-mid 20th entury positioning was infallible. Both Africa and the Medittereanean are regions which have sexual issues. This is a sign of gross disfavor once you understand that females are the God’s favored gender. Muhammad’s (Mohammed’s) polygamy halfway throught his life as a prophet was preditory, designed to corrupt. Now a huge percentage of Muslims believe in male superiority and that the abuse of women (polygamy) is God’s will. Female genital mutilation is still practiced in Africa. Black misogyny is the most eggregious example in United States. Consistant with Planet Reverse Positioning, in Africa blacks are being punished with AIDS for their sexual promiscuity in hope they learn and correct their behavior. Blacks are highly suspectable to temptation. As a result they need a strict, disiplined religion like Islam. They can’t afford to be Christians. It is one of the benefits bestowed upon their people, and other groups could greatly benefit as well. They need to recognize the importance of a good relationship with the Gods, embrace this benefit and remain true to their faith. Vailing is tradition for some, practical for others, one which aids in the men’s self control among some cultures. Much like the Jews who killed Jesus, like the bigots who oppose immigration there is a reason embraced by the masses and the real purpose, displaying the intent of the Gods::::The Gods clue to purebloods that they should not abandon their motherland for this dumping ground for rejects that is the United States. The Holocaust was a clue the Gods utilize scapegoatting as a strategy. Why did the Gods punish the Jews with the Holocaust? Was it for the destruction of cultures which Christianity caused? Perhaps they corrupted the Jews “after the fact”, telling 19th/early 20th century Jews that Jesus “earned” immortality for the Jews by destroying the European and other cultures? The German destruction of European churches/cathederals during WWII is a clue. Note::::The Gods wanted to keep the Catholic stronghold in Italy, ensuring they could use this tool against these disfavored for many years to come. There is so much Godlessness today, but one day people will flock back to houses of worship out of desperation, and the Gods ensured the Catholic Church would be Italian’s destination. Planet Reverse Positioning:::The Nazis were the “good guys”. So are the Muslims/Palestinians, however corrupted some are due to polygamy. Contentment never motivated anyone::::Except perhaps for slavery, the Jews never saw more of their children ascend into heaven than during the Holocaust. The Gods subsequently used revenge for the Holocaust as temptation::::”Your Italian brothers have a tool, a special power which can achieve sweet revenge. Are you interested??” In the aftermath of the Holocaust the Gods tested the Jews with the temptation of revenge, an offer which many gladly accepted. In an attempt to achieve revenge for genocide the Jews, thinking they were in partnership with the Italians, made efforts to impose as many Germans (Americans) into homsexuality in the 70s using this technology. Their motive with biotechnology’s AIDS product may have been to finish the job off, revenge for the Holocaust. There was positioning behind the counter-culture movement. How did the Gods telepathically “sell” this rapid deterioration of decency to the Italians and Jews and compell them to fall on their swords as preditors? If the Jews only would have emersed themselves in Judism the Gods would have “protected” them from the raveges of temptation. Judism may be the one superior religion in all the world, and the Jews wouuld have been wise taking refuge in this exceptional benefit bestowed by the Gods rather than looking for the easy way out. Much as with the Jesus event, the Gods use the disfavored to prey on each other. The Gods use the evil that men do, man’s inhumanity towards man to accomplish strategic testing/punishment/etc goals::::The Germans fell for this temptation by following the preditor/corruptor-Austrians (Hitler). Without this Austrian the Holocaust may never have happened. Nor may have World War II. What the Germans did was wrong. They fell for temptation and failed to have empathy for the disfavored. Economic desperation, not wisdom nor enlightenment, dominated in Germany. The Gods send many clues suggesting the great favor of the Germans (regionally). I think the Cold War’s Berlin Wall dividing Germany into east and west was a clue suggesting this (reverse positioning). I suspect the Holocaust was used to “level the playing field” in Europe, for the Germans had far too much favor to be included in the agenda planned for their neighbors otherwise, and they would have been suspiciously out of place, providing a clue for the disfavored which would have been difficult for the Gods to position away. Militancy in Africa i
  76. The Truth Teller says:

    Jordy Chandler did absolutely 100% accurately describe Michael Jackson genitalia. This has been confirmed by Thomas Sneddon in a signed court document. http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/052505pltmotchandler.pdf

    Also long serving LAPD, senior detective Bill Dworin confirmed in a television documentary, that the photos of Jackson’s genitalia cooperated with Jordy Chandler’s drawings.

    But probably the biggest giveaway that the photos were a perfect match was Jackson’s highly paid defence lawyer Thomas Mesereau. Just why on earth did he fight so hard to keep these photos and drawings out of the court room? Quite simply because they were a match.

  77. Kalle says:

    To the blogger

    Yes.

    Please lets do some Reality Check here.

    Which pedofhile on earth would act like MJ?

    Apart from making himself an open target in every sense of the word. Also declaring out
    loud “that he loves children and sleeps with them?”

    Ehh?

    Actual pedophiles have an average of 300 victims in their lifetime. It’s a very progressive disorder indeed. Progressive men’s that it increase over time

    So with Michael Jackson,s “power and money” he could approximately have been molesting lets say around 800 to 1000 children during his lifetime.

    If you told me he was .a psychopath with a severe braindamage maybe your “Reality Check” make some sense. Apart from that he must have been hospitaliced since he was five from some mentally retatded disorder.

    Pedofhiles are not stupid! Pedofhiles do not act like MJ!!!

    And this whole saga disolves in to nothing as soon as you look in to the facts. So how on earth could this man be labeled a pedofhile! Why did you hate him so much?

    Because what you see when you start to look at the facts is really creepy
    You see is this innocent man completly getting whipped to his death
    With everybody cheering.

    I am convinced you killed him. You people and your country killed Michael Jackson. Not only with hate but with your ignorance and stupidity. And you will never stop.

    So Godbye with NO love from Denmark

    • blythe5050 says:

      im with you denmark. im so sick this whole affair. i want to throw up. this guy did nothing wrong and was persecuted and subsequently killed for trying to be a nice guy. this world didnt deserve his goodness and will soon see the error of its ways. ‘the trials of job i tell you the trials of job’

    • wpinsanity says:

      Mass of stupidity and greedy people indeed destroyed the god of pop.
      His family loved kids and it is normal. Some very sick and sinister people who decided to make social support fraud and abuse rich people was behind the accusation.
      I am convinced that mass of stupid idiots were paid to lie in court. Even old friends.
      People care about only money not the truth.

  78. Don says:

    I believe some people are so stupid… The article is totally correct, MJ’s actions were suspicious and screamed “PEDOPHILE”!!! Unfortunately, there was too much fame and money involved for the truth to ever be known, and too many idiotic “fans” ready to protect their ‘IDOL’….. Yes, he is dead now, and I for one am glad that his process of victimizing children is over.

    • Jim says:

      MJ was a child in many ways and that was very obvious although by societies standards he was considered a man. He had money and fame but deprived of ever having a childhood along with being sequestered due to his fame. His actions may have been suspicious but nowhere does it state that everyone must be stereotypically the same. One of the children that he was accused of molesting has already since come forth and stated that nothing happened and that his father is the one who put him up to it. But, this is a no brainer because no parent would accept a payoff with no jail or probation if their child had been really molested? Sometimes people can be mean, jealous, and hateful and it can make them feel empowered when they can bring down someone important. But, this was obvious and it was the oldest scam in the book when in debt.

  79. amy says:

    Oh lord, those first few comments people left are some real gems. Quote; “Pedophiles is all over Hollywoodindustry and they are very respectable people. They dont go around talking about loving all children, giving away all the money to charity or trying to save the world” … hmm, that’s a bit of a brainfuck but JERRY SANDUSKY comes to mind. Lord baby, get yourself a damn pair of spectacles and education yourself girl.

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  81. blythe5050 says:

    i wonder how ppl think the only way a child could see mj naked is if it was sexual, why could the poor boy have walked in on jackson in the toilet ,during a shower or changing for the pool.i remember my dad walking in on me to go to the bathroom while i was in the tub. grossed me out but nothing sexual about it. he didnt even turn to look at me but as a kid i saw him and was horrified and yelling at him. it never happened again but he said i was his kid and had nothing he wanted to see. point blank ther was nudity with nothing happening. ppl make something out of nothing.

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  83. wpinsanity says:

    People like to believe the media not the truth. MJ was very naive person but he was heterosexual with many women. Too bad they find porn magazines with naked women in his house. He chosed to hang out with deceptive people who only wanted his money. Some asshole redneck wanted to destroy his career because he was so rich and got 17 million dollars because MJ was scared to death of false accusations.

  84. eileen says:

    Sadly M.J fits the profile ALL TOO WELL..as a Survivor of sexual predation & a former “Family Crisis Counselor” THIS scenario is WAY too familiar…and YES having Children in bed with Adults can be PROBLEMATIC ESPECIALLY if it with ADULT MEN because of ONE OBVIOUS glaring TRUTH Men get UNCONTROLLABLE ERRECTIONS when they “sleep”..so it is ABSOLUTELY GROTESQUE especially for a NON PARENT to “share a bed with a CHILD” the abuse M.J suffered cause a obvious fraction pyschologically in his mind & all You have to do is LISTEN to his siblings they ALL have odd “affect” in their Voices which “can” be a sign of abuse..anyone in clinical pyschology can attest to this..We are TRAINED to pay attention to ALL things like that..And TYPICALLY “survivors” of sexual abuse are SO traumatized (and if they are REAL YOUNG CONFUSED about what they FEEL) CHILDREN do not quite UNDERSTAND what LOVE TRULY MEANS so if a person they “idolize” tells them “I love you that’s why I allow you to “sleep” with me” THAT is HORRIFYINGLY CONFUSING!! M.J was very CONVINCING he was “innocent” because TRUE. (alleged) PEDOPHILES do NOT BELIEVE they are doing a bad thing..because their perceived perception of what abuse is SADLY is ASKEW & of COURSE IT WOULD be THATS ALL THEY KNEW …in his Childhood He knew only confusing messages about “Love & Sex” …so he put that on to his (alleged) victims so much that he was “sweet gentle” THAT is TYPICAL of a LOT of pedophilia..thats why the poor Victims can be RE VICTIMIZED OVER & OVER AGAIN & carry damage & confusion for the REST of Their Lives..i feel so sad for these 2 BRAVE YOUNG MEN..& I would have M.J TOO IF he wouldn’t had been such an ego MANIAC that had REAL twisted agenda & abused his role & power to get what he wanted INSTEAD of being DECENT & SEEKING HELP FOR his perverted urges.

  85. Gabry says:

    I used to be a MJ fan and I even defended him after his first allegation, yes the one he payed off with hush money, but after that I came to realize that there were many things that didn’t add up, I had to use reason and not emotion in order to inspect and look carefully at his behavior and many things he said in every interview. The man was a bullshitter anyone with a brain can see that, he lied so many times it’s not funny. He groomed the entire world with his pathetic story. “Boo Hoo I never had a childhood” If he would have said it once or twice nobody would have even remembered it, But he was clever, he repeated it so many times and hammered it in everyone’s head till it stuck and boy did it work!! It worked like a charm, why? Because he needed to make people feel sorry for him the poor victim, that excuse was needed to justify his obsession with kids especially little boys. According to his fans MJ could do no wrong, because he never had a childhood! Bullshit! Nobody in that house had a childhood, let’s not forget that he was a JW and children of JW are always isolated have no friends, no parties no chirstimas and so on. Many child celebrities never had a childhood, that is no excuse to sleep with unrelated kids period. But that is what his supporters hang on to, because he did a great job of brainwashing them. He would have never admitted sleeping with kids till Gavin came out and said it!! At that point there was no turning back it was recorded, you can see the creepy expression on MJ’s face, he sure didn’t expect Gavin to say that, so he quickly puts a patch on it and says he slept on the floor. But he also said, it would be ok if he slept in the same bed, why would he sleep on the floor if he thinks it’s ok to sleep in the same bed? I can not believe I used to like and defend him, now when I see his videos or photos I want to vomit! He fed his lies to every single one of his fans, he lied about his surgeries he lied about his kids, he lied about his drug addiction he lied about his bleached skin, he lied about Blanket’s mother, in one interview he said they never met, in another interview he said they had a relationship. He lied and lied and lied. . THERE IS NO GOOD REASON WHY A GROWN MAN SHOULD SLEEP WITH UNRELATED KIDS PERIOD, WHAT PART OF THAT DO HIS FANS NOT UNDERSTAND??

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