Is Atheism the New Normal?

Recently perusing a back issue of The New Yorker (from May 21, 2007), I noticed an article by Anthony Gottlieb on post-9-11 atheism titled “Atheists with Attitude” (77-80), the conclusion of which I found arresting:

[O]ne can venture conservative estimates of the number of unbelievers in the world today. Reviewing a large number of studies among some fifty countries, Phil Zuckerman, a sociologist at Pitzer College, Claremont, California, puts the figure at between five hundred million and seven hundred and fifty million. This excludes such highly populated places as Brazil, Iran, Indonesia, and Nigeria, for which information is lacking or patchy. Even the low estimate of five hundred million would make unbelief the fourth-largest persuasion in the world, after Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. It is also by far the youngest, with no significant presence in the West before the eighteenth century. Who can say what the landscape will look like once unbelief has enjoyed a past as long as Islam’s—let alone as long as Christianity’s? God is assuredly not on the side of the unbelievers, but history may yet be.

Isn’t the idea that history may be on the side of atheism a striking thought? What we think of as natural (that most people are religious and have always been religious; that religious institutions and practices are human universals that will never change) may, in fact, be a mere artifact of the relatively short time frame through which we reflect on history.

Religion, in other words, might only seem inevitable because we tend to think of civilization as what’s gone on over the past 5,000 years.

But what if we widen our time frame? What if we see ourselves at the beginnings of a global civilization that will continue for another 50,000 years—or 500,000 years?

If we do this, it means that we’re in our collective infancy, and belief in gods—far from being inevitable—may well be just a part of that infancy, without much of a future. Like the gargoyals on the facades of medieval cathedrals, religious figures might still have the power to mesmerize and fright, but behind their image is really nothing substantial linking them to humanity’s ongoing intellectual evolution. 

From the vantage of a person living 5,000 years from now, he or she may look back on a global civilization which, for thousands of years, half (or more than half) of its human beings have not been especially religious, and it will not seem at all natural to him or her that they must be so in the future.

A similar observation can be made about other things thought of by many people in our time as natural (such as war, patriarchy, racism, nationalism, and homophobia).

Maybe the gnu atheists, Gandhi, Barack Obama, feminists, Enlightenment-oriented internationalists, and gays are leading the way to our global civilization’s most natural (future) norms—the norms of empiricism, doubt, peace, individuality, universal friendliness, and justice.

Perhaps this is where we’re really trending. Religion, war, patriarchy, racism, nationalism, and homophobia may only seem natural in the light of our civilization’s infancy, not its maturity.

About Santi Tafarella

I teach writing and literature at Antelope Valley College in California.
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30 Responses to Is Atheism the New Normal?

  1. We can hope. There are a lot of people holding on to the irrationality of religion though.

    There are also people who NEED religion. Compulsive personalities (such as drug abusers) often find their way to being productive members of society through faith. The need to feel that someone loves you helps many – even if it is the fairy tale of the invisible man in the sky. I wonder what the success rate is on secular support systems? The big ones, like AA, are religious.

  2. andrewclunn says:

    “Maybe the gnu atheists, Gandhi, Barack Obama, feminists, Enlightenment-oriented internationalists, and gays are leading the way to our global civilization’s most natural (future) norms—the norms of empiricism, doubt, peace, individuality, universal friendliness, and justice.”

    LOL. Gandhi was no atheist. Barack Obama has religious issues with gay marriage. Gandhi also was racist against blacks. There are plenty of religious gays. There are certainly non-enlightenment atheists. I don’t know where you get your ‘heroes’ from, but if that’s the crew leading us into the future, then it’s gonna be one messed up place.

    • santitafarella says:

      I was thinking of Gandhi in relation to human friendliness toward others and Obama as an example of someone who has broken through a racial barrier.

      And Obama’s “problem” with gays is political, not religious (at least in my estimation). If it was safe for him, politically, to support gay marriage, he would do so. And Obama ended “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.”

      As for non-Enlightenment atheists (the Machiavellians, the Nietzscheans, the cynical manipulators of Herderianism like Leo Strauss and Karl Rove), I worry about them. An atheist future may not be a good one if Enlightenment humanism doesn’t undergird it.

      —Santi

  3. Paradigm says:

    I hate to say it but Sweden is full of friendly humanistic atheists. You could even say it’s a central part of our culture. Liberals like Michael More and Bill Maher praise us for it, but would never move here. Why? Because it is boring and conformist here. (No, they don’t admit it but that is the real reason.)

    Religion is akin to fantasy and imagination. That’s why we watch your movies but rarely the other way around. Japan seems to be a similar example. So be careful what you wish for.

    • santitafarella says:

      Paradigm:

      Yours is a very good caution. A world without hot house plants (of the psychological and imaginative varieties) does seem boring. Is atheism and empiricism bringing us into a dull and too comfy uniformity—Nietzsche’s last man?

      Maybe. But, let me ask you: what’s keeping the comfy bourgeoisie of Sweden from doing art, imaginative film making, etc?

      Isn’t the base pallat of atheism, empiricism, and middle class security a springboard to something else—or are most people just content, like Voltaire’s conclusion to Candide, with tending, very conservatively, their little gardens, drinking tea and wine, and not thinking too much (or being ambitious about something)?

      —Santi

      • Paradigm says:

        I believe material comfort can be an obstacle in art. Some won’t be comforted by it, they have some inner restlessness that needs an artistic outlet. But hardship is probably a major catalyst. Historically, the upper class has enjoyed the same comfort that the middle class now has. And they seem very uncreative. If you look at classical composers hardly anyone is upper class or nobility. Yes, they are small demographic, but they have much more possibility to pursue such interests.

        As for the spiritual aspect, it’s called a fairy tale for a reason. So much of our culture is derived from religion and the idea of the supernatural, the afterlife etc. What would fill that void in an atheist world? Tales of scientific progress? Maybe something will come along, but I just don’t see it. I suspect that kind of culture would have emerged along with Enlightenment as early as the 1700s. But it hasn’t. People embrace the technology but they still want to hear stories about vampires and such.

  4. Colin Hutton says:

    Santi :

    I think (hope!) your time-frames are wrong. Humans have advanced more in the last 5,000 years than in the prior 50,000 years. And more in the last 500 than in the prior 5,000.

    Allowing for genetic manipulation and nano-technology enabled enhancements, I think it is unlikely that we would recognise our descendants (assuming there are any) in 5,000 years as ‘human’. Whatever happens, I suspect they will find the views and aspirations of today’s humans as quite incomprehensible, and certainly irrelevant.

    I think it is possible that within even just a century from now we could have a world changed beyond our current comprehension. What say China dominant, Darwinian Humanism the norm and a revised international calendar reading AD*252?

    :Colin
    * After Darwin!

    • santitafarella says:

      Colin,

      I wonder what a posthuman atheism will look like.

      —Santi

      • Colin Hutton says:

        Santi – I suspect that the concept of “atheism” would be meaningless to entities with levels of IQ and rationality that would not admit of the possibility of believing in the factual truth of fairy tales.

        -Colin

  5. Dave M. Brady says:

    Religion is infantile. In fact, I’m embarrassed that most of my species believes in such nonsense. There, I said it. Although religion isn’t the only nonsense people believe in, it’s certainly the most dangerous. At least people who believe in aliens or ghosts don’t consult those ghosts or aliens when they’re making important decisions. And because of the internet, more atheists and skeptics are finding each other. People are discussing atheism now. Openly. People are bringing it up at family parties, school, the gym.

    I have my fingers crossed that this will be the century in which we finally get over religion, and stop blaming and praising gods for everything and anything.

    Jared– You should check out Penn & Teller: Bullshit. They do an episode about AA and where they look at their success rates and criticize their connection with the courts. They also meet some people who run/attend secular versions of AA.

  6. conservative says:

    It’s a great irony of history that in Europe, the countries that are most hostile to religion, to Christianity in particular, are the first ones that will probably fall to Islam. England, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark have degenerated into politically correct dictatorships over the last couple of years. It’s almost illegal there to say anthing against Islam or against Muslims, but it’s normal and acceptable to hate America, traditional Western values and even their own countries.

    Here are a few facts and news confirming this.

    A Danish court has found a leading Islamic expert guilty of racism for his comments about Muslims, the latest ruling in an ongoing battle between free speech and Islam in Europe. On May 5 2011, Lars Hedegaard was charged with racism under Denmark’s hate speech law after telling someone at a gathering about the problem of rape committed against Muslim girls by male relatives.

    “Of course I made clear that I was not talking about every Muslim man in the country or in the world. By the way, I was not talking specifically about conditions in Denmark,” Hedegaard explained. Hedegaard said it’s a fact that can be backed up by hard evidence. But in Denmark, that doesn’t matter. Under Denmark’s hate speech law, it doesn’t matter if what you said was true. It doesn’t matter if it is factual — if it offends someone, you could be charged.

    Statement by Lars Hedegaard on his conviction for “hate speech”
    Copenhagen, May 5, 2011
    “It is with great sadness I have to report that Denmark’s reputation as a haven of free speech and a bastion of resistance to sharia encroachment is irreparably tarnished. Denmark is my country and I used to be proud of it. On May 3 the Eastern Superior Court in Copenhagen convicted me of hate speech under Denmark’s infamous Article 266 b of the penal code – a rubber provision that may be stretched to serve any political purpose dear to the hearts of the ruling elites. My crime is to have called attention to the horrific conditions of Muslim women and for my audacity the court has now enabled my detractors to label me a racist.
    Muslims can say whatever they want with impunity. Our authorities and their allies among the politically correct elites have chosen sides in the struggle between the forces of freedom and the forces of darkness and so opted for the oppressors of their own people and against those deserving of their protection.
    The real victims of this despicable case are freedom of speech and the tens of thousands of girls and women – Muslim as well as non-Muslim – whose plight may no longer be mentioned in my country for fear of legal prosecution and public denigration. We cannot permit this outcome to stand. I have therefore decided to appeal my conviction to the Supreme Court and – if that is denied – to the European Court of Human Rights.
    This is a fight for liberty against tyranny. It will be long and hard but losing is no option.”

    In England, Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang who are husband and wife, were arrested and stood trial because a Muslim woman sued them for a “hate crime”. The “hate crime” was a theological conversation in which they contradicted her opinions. Do a search on youtube “Judge finds couple who criticised Islam innocent” and “A crime to criticise Islam” on BBC question time. And this is not an isolated case.

    People in Western Europe are not allowed to speak freely against Islam and its dark and medieval practices, but Muslims are allowed to say anything. In any country in Western Europe, Muslims can declare their hatred openly and publicly. They stage violent demonstrations and hold up signs that say “Democracy is cancer. Islam is the answer”; “Sharia is coming”; “Kill those who insult Islam”. In September 2008, Anjem Choudary, a Muslim activist and lawyer in UK, held a conference with other Muslims in London. This is what he said: “When we’ll be in the majority, your children will be in the positions of power in government, education, everywhere. We don’t become integrated in Christianity and Western culture! But we’ll make sure that you [pointing to an imaginary crowd] will be integrated into sharia law. Islam is superior. We are keeping an eye on Downing Street”. Choudary also said to the BBC in an interview “If you are a Muslim, you are innocent before God. As a Muslim, I must have hatred for all things non-Muslim”.

    In Great Britain, Muslims have special rights. Their neighboorhoods are no-go zones, like in other parts of Western Europe. All cars passing through those neighborhoods must stop and traffic comes to a halt, when they block the streets to pray. It’s starting to happen here too. I’ve seen pictures from New York city, with two entire blocks closed to traffic because Muslims pray on their carpets. In Western Europe, even some supermarket stores have special check-out counters where Muslims work as cashiers, no pork meat is allowed to pass through there. They can’t touch pork, but they can hate all of us and call Allah’s curses upon all people.

    The “honor killings” that happen in their neighborhoods sometimes go unprosecuted because there are no witnesses. They have created these ghettoes for themselves with the help of left wing progressive liberals. The liberals, most of them good atheists and anti-Christian fanatics, go out of their way to give islamists special rights and privileges, in the name of multiculturalism.

    In spite of all these facts and threats to freedom, the left wingers continue to impose their delusion on all of us. They demand respect and exagerrated tolerance for Islam, but they are not asking Muslims to show any respect for the countries they live in. They don’t realize that they just met their match. Islam is just as totalitarian and intolerant as their Marxist-Socialist politically correct garbage. The end of Western civilization at least in Europe, is near. The liberal atheists and socialists haven’t learned anything from the lessons of history. They don’t have a clue as to what’s going to happen. That when a civilization is morally, economically, spiritually and socially destroyed from within, it is going to be conquered by another one. It’s that simple.

  7. conservative says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tnjZEZggkkA Geert Wilders final speech at his trial

    Before you say that Wilders is a Nazi and “far Right”, and all that garbage that the mainstream media has been telling you, consider the fact that he supports Israel’s right to exist. He said in another speech, “I love Israel”. How can a Nazi care about Jews and support them to have their own country?…

    It’s ironic that the left wingers who accuse Geert Wilders and many others of being Nazis, are actually the ones helping the Islamists destroy Israel and kick Jews out of their country. The progressive liberals on the Left, including the politically correct Neo-Communists who demonize patriotism and advocate internationalism, never say anything about Muslim anti-Semitic hatred. They always side with the Palestinians. Santi, you can put all the Holocaust posts you want on your site. As long as you don’t condemn the leftists for trying to destroy Israel, you haven’t accomplished anything.

    See, here’s where the importance of the biblical record is once again vindicated, ironically. The Bible is ignored by most secular historians and politicians when it comes to history and settling matters in Israel. The fact is, the Bible is a reliable historical record as far as the presence of Jews in that land. It’s a known fact that Jews were living in Israel, at the time of Jesus. Actually, even before. That the country was called Israel in ancient times. So they have every right to be there.

  8. conservative says:


    In this youtube video you can see some shockings things that are happening in Europe.

    A news report from England, about a Muslim man who killed his daughter because she wore make-up. There are hundreds of cases like this in Europe.
    The picture of a Danish woman gang raped by Muslims, her face is disfigured and bloody.
    A video of a Muslim woman asking her little girl “Do you like Jews?” and she says “No, because they are pigs and apes”. “Where does it say that?” asks the woman smiling. “In the Koran” replies the little girl.
    Geert Wilders’ speech, in which he warns America.

    You won’t see this on television, ABC, CNN and MSNBC won’t tell you this. 🙂

    Geert Wilders and other people in Europe, like Elisabeth Sabaditch-Wolff in Austria, are on trial for speaking the truth about Islam. In his final remarks at the trial, Wilders says something very important. I just posted that in the previous one, you can watch it. At 6:07 he blows the whole thing wide open. It’s a political trial, it has nothing to do with hate and discrimination or racism or anything. These slogans are used as pretexts by the politically correct inquisitors to silence any opposition to their sinister political agenda. They are doing it even here in America. Any cricitism of Obama and his failed policies is immediatelly branded racist and discredited.

    The politically correct elites are using the judicial systems in Europe to set up an Islamic Inquisition. It’s a modern day inquisition. Islam is the only religion that’s above criticism. You don’t get dragged into court if you write a book about Catholicism in the Middle Ages or an article about pedophile priests. On the other hand, you can be persecuted for writing or speaking anything negative about Muslims, their religion and culture. This would have never been possible without the contribution of those many “useful idiots” who promoted political correctness and made a career out of hating free market capitalism, Christian beliefs and moral foundations, and last but not least, the destruction of freedom.

  9. conservative says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRYXGIi5340&feature=player_embedded#at=14 Turncoat nation
    You may want to watch this. especially the sequence at 5:30.

  10. conservative says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfDIbl3DZ8Q&feature=related violent street demonstration by Muslims in England. Look at the cops, how intimidated they are. 🙂

    It’s interesting that Liberals are screaming about the people at Tea Party protests who are not acting anywhere close to these fanatical idiots.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqWosLCLsiU&feature=related Is it a crime to criticise Islam?

    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/labour-vows-to-rip-up-free-speech-safeguard/ these hypocrites helped destroy free speech because they were instigated by the gay activists with their political bullying. And now, the whole
    thing is going to turn against them, with the islamists.

    http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml

    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/video-swearing-kids-used-in-gay-marriage-hate-video/

    http://teaandpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/12/23/spain-salafist-imam-wants-to-spread-his-islamist-police-to-other-cities/

    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/lord-waddington-free-speech-is-not-hateful/ The efforts of a British politician to save free speech. God bless him. Thank God there are many people like him in America.

    • That video of the Muslim march was interesting. I keep contrasting it to the civil rights marches in the USA. They are in direct contrast. In particular, this is a balancing act for me. The only thing I trust less than the government, is religion.

      Although if you watch/listen that march, it is about freeing Palestine. Many Palestinians have been in refugee camps for decades. Their land was stolen, and innocents are killed every day by the Israelis. Granted, they kill innocent Israelis too. But the numbers are brutal, there are exponentially more dead Palestinian civilians that Israelis. I have no idea why the USA is so idiotically pro-Israeli. They are as much the bad guys as the Palestinians. But it is the Palestinians who have not even remotely close to a normal life. No degree of safety, liberty or freedom.

  11. Colin Hutton says:

    Interesting :

    Dave Brady (above) – I fully agree with you, and

    Conservative (above) – I agree with you too, but

    It is apparent (from discussion in the next post) that

    Conservative must radically disagree with Dave Brady.

    So I will comment in the next post!

    Colin

  12. nanbush says:

    Left hemisphere linearity and analytic ability is essential, of course; but so is right hemisphere creativity and accessibility to non-linear, non-analytic senses and archetypal experience. Dave Brady’s flat-out declamation raises many questions about limitations in his experiential background. Please note: This is not a defense of any fundamentalism–but that includes any secular variety as well!

  13. I do not think that anyone here is arguing that Islam is superior to Christianity in any way. I would love to see Islam disappear as much as I would love to see Christianity disappear. Look through history, religion has regularly suppressed human rights on speech and activity.

    The British issues with “hate crimes” as speech are not specific to religion in the UK. Corporations and individuals use British libel and speech laws all the time. they do not have the same ideas about free speech that we do here in the USA. They will need to fix this, and not just because of Islam.

  14. conservative says:

    It’s almost illegal there to say anthing against Islam or against Moslems, but it’s normal and acceptable to hate America, traditional Western values and even their own countries.

    People in Western Europe are not allowed to speak freely against Islam and its dark and medieval practices, but
    Moslems are allowed to say anything. In any country in Western Europe, Moslems can declare their hatred openly and publicly. In September 2008, Anjem Choudary, a Moslem activist and lawyer in UK, held a conference with other Moslems in London. He said some controversial things then, and on another occasion he said: “If you are a Muslim, you are innocent before God. As a Muslim, I must have hatred for all things non-Moslem”.

    He won’t be taken to court for that. In Great Britain, Moslems have special rights. None of those liberal secular organizations that claim to be against intolerance and hate, will ever file a lawsuit against Choudary and others like him. They demand respect and exaggerated tolerance for Islam, but they are not asking Moslems to show any respect for the countries they live in. This is how a civilization is destroyed and conquered. It’s that simple.

  15. conservative says:

    Geert Wilders final speech at his trial, that was a few days ago.

    He also said some sobering things when he came to America, last month. This is what he said among other things: “You, as Americans are better off than Europeans. You know why? Because you enjoy more freedom than them. You can speak the truth. …The establishment of sharia in Europe is happening. That’s why I am glad that some of your state legislatures intend to pass anti-sharia legislation. In a recent case that dealt with a real estate transaction involving a mosque, a judge in Florida ruled that the entire transaction should proceed according to sharia rules. This is only the beginning. That’s why you must guard your laws and freedoms”.

  16. conservative says:

    The comments about “liberating” Palestine, are politically correct newspeak. Come on, give me a break!…
    The Israelis are not saints either, but “liberating” Palestine would mean killing all Israeli Jews or at least drive them out of the country. It’s a fact, an absolute truth, that Palestinians don’t want just a state of their own alongside Israel, they want to kick the Israelis out completely. Netanyahu said in his speech in Congress, that since he and other Israeli leaders accept a Palestinian state, then the Palestinians must also accept an Israeli Jewish state. That’s what this is all about. It’s clear that no matter how much land the Israelis are giving them, they don’t stop their demands and their attacks.

    Geert Wilders and others have said it, the Palestinian state should be Jordan, like it was before.

    • You apply the Hamas ideology to all Palestinians? That is, obviously, a gross generalization and inaccurate. How can you call it a fact and absolute truth is absurd. If you really accept that as an absolute, they you have some serious problems with basic reasoning.

      A Palestinian state does not mean eliminating Israel. There are many possible lines of demarcation.

  17. conservative says:

    It’s something anyone can see, that the Tea Party can’t be compared to those fanatical idiots in that video. I hope at least people who are scared of the Tea Party will realize that much.

    The lawsuits dealing with “hate speech” in Great Britain, most of them are filed by gay activists and Islamists.
    That’s why it would be a good idea to do away with those laws completely. Because unless they do that, this trend toward totalitarianism isn’t going to stop.

    There are people who are starting to take a stand against such laws, even here.

    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/lord-waddington-free-speech-is-not-hateful/ The efforts of a British politician to save free speech. God bless him. Thank God there are many people like him in America.

    • Hate crime laws are absurd. Something is either a crime, or not. Here in the USA, we have a much greater latitude for free speech that most other nations. Although even the UK, its ludicrous libel and hate speech rules, are changing because of technology. The anonymity of the internet, combined with reporting on the internet stories, not court cases, is swinging things.

      As for Sharia law, you seem to not understand the FL case very well. In FL, entities in a contract can agree to arbitration for disputes. Often, this is baked into contracts to lower costs of disputes and get timely resolutions that are not possible in standard court cases. The case you are referencing, both parties agreed to arbitration by a Sharia third party. What the judge did was uphold this term in the contract. There is no difference between this and 2 parties that agree to use some other specific arbitrator. No one is forced, in any way, to use Sharia arbitration.

      Your fears of Sharia law and how it works its way into things are way overblown. Even in the UK, Sharia courts can be used for arbitration, but even they must abide by existing laws where criminal activity is concerned. A Sharia court, for instance, cannot order the stoning of a daughter or some other bass ackwards Muslim crap religious laws.

  18. conservative says:

    It’s not about the hammas ideology. It’s about Muslim anti-Jewish fanaticism, most Moslems have that ingrained in their mentality. I’ve seen it even among educated ones, they simply hate Jews and Israel.

    General Ion Mihai Pacepa , was a high ranking officer in the Communist secret police of his country Romania, during the Cold War. He defected to the US in 1979, and he revealed the connection between Islamic terrorism and Moscow. A connection that still exists today. According to him, the whole plan to use Islam as a weapon against the West was the brainchild of Yuri Andropov, who later became General Secretary of the Party in Russia. Andropov was the chief of the KGB in the 1970s and that’s when the plan started.

    Andropov told all the secret police chiefs from Soviet satellite governments that the Islamic world was a perfect medium for them to grow a poisonous plant of hatred against America. “A plant with roots in Marxist-Leninist hatred, and aided by Muslim fanaticism. America’s support of Israel helped us fuel this hatred. Islamic anti-Semitism was a given. Muslims were predisposed toward ultra-nationalism, chauvinism and victimization. Their oppressed and illiterate masses could easily be manipulated and brought to a state of exaltation and fanaticism” said Pacepa.

    As you can see, this anti-American, hate-the-West and its values, be-tolerant-to islam propaganda, still works with great efficiency today. 😀

    There are many brainwashed college students in Europe and even here, who ALWAYS side with the Palestinians against the Israelis. I’m not kidding, just go to a university campus or talk to some students who have liberal progressive views. They’ll tell you Israel and the US are fascists and imperialists, Christianity is evil, so is capitalism, they have been “programmed” to think like this. This is a toxic mentality that works for ignorant idiots and it’s contributing to the destruction of freedom.

  19. conservative says:

    You say that hate crime laws are absurd, Jared Rodriguez, and you’re right. But look at who put those laws into place. Progressive liberals on the Left, they did. It’s not conservatives who did these things. It’s progressive liberals who also encourage Moslems to demand preferential treatment, because of their obsession with diversity. Actually, I don’t think it’s so much their obsession with diversity, it’s their hatred of Western values, of Christianity and capitalism, that makes them be so friendly toward Islamists.

    The left wingers did all this in Europe and here, in order to destroy free market capitalism, freedom and Christianity. That’s why they support Muslims and political correctness, “hate crime” laws and all that garbage. The extreme left wingers manipulated and used many people to do their dirty work for them. Most people who voted for Kerry or Obama, and who favor the economic and social policies of the Left, are not Communists or Socialists. They are just “useful idiots”, Lenin called them that. 🙂

    The Commies knew that they can’t take over the entire world, through wars and “revolutions”. Especially the West, they couldn’t defeat America and the West through war.

    So instead of civil war and dictatorship, they have accomplished most of their evil goals gradually, through social engineering over several decades.

    The concerns over sharia law are not overblown at all. You don’t seem to understand, in Islam, sharia law governs EVERYTHING, not just religious matters. In countries under Islamic rule, there is no separation of mosque and state. The only exception is Turkey. And even Turkey now, has a president or prime minister who is a religious radical.

    Islam and “moderate” Moslems are the darlings of the marxist academics in Europe and North America.

    I think this blog topic should be called “Is Islam the new normal?” 🙂

    The case in Florida is an example of how it starts. That’s how it started in Western Europe. In Great Britain, Belgium, Holland, and other countries. Through seemingly insignificant things like contracts and domestic disputes. And now, they use sharia law to block traffic on streets because they pray, to not touching pork in supermarkets for Muslim employees, suing people for “blasphemy” and “hate crimes”, many things like that.
    In 2008, Dutch cartoonist Gregorius Neckshot was arrested by police at his house, and they confiscated his computer, too. He committed a “hate crime” because he drew some cartoons in which he made fun of Moslems.

    I think any sane and logical person would see these warning signs of a coming theocracy that works in alliance with the State. In some countries in the European Union, the secular State is acting on behalf of Islamic special rights, rather than protecting the rights of all its people.

    That’s why we better pay attention to this and defend our freedom by applying the Constitution.

  20. conservative says:

    The countries in Western Europe like Great Britain, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Sweden, which are currently losing the political and cultural war to Islam, they all have a few things in common. They are ultra-secularized, hostile to the Christian faith, they have a big government left wing mentality with idiotic and bankrupt Socialist social programs, and political correctness is the official political ideology.

    If you look at all these aspects, you realize why they are so easy to be taken over by an aggressive and totalitarian religion and culture. Their countries were destroyed socially, economically, politically and spiritually, by cultural marxism and political correctness, the official political ideology of the Left. Everything that held their societies together, is gone. They have no civilization anymore. This is what leftist idiots don’t understand. That when you wipe out and destroy all the traditional foundations of a society, that society is doomed. It’s like a building with no foundations, it collapses. And because the atheists and progressive extremists have nothing to offer people instead, the empty cultural and political vacuum is going to be filled by another culture or civilization!

    Socialism and atheistic humanism are no match for a powerful force like Islam. Islam is an extraordinary force, cultural, economic, religious, political, and social. You think you can stop them with your wimpy quotes from Nietzche and your calls to “dialogue” and “tolerance”?… They’re gonna wipe you out. I’m not saying this to be sarcastic, I say it because it’s true.

    The philosophy of atheism, your cultural and moral relativism offer no stability to people. And soon, people in the Western world, are going to be fed up with all the corruption, crime, rebellious kids, broken families (crime is a result of these two factors), economic conditions that will get worse, empty political promises, and they will accept Islam, because Islam offers some stability and order. But at what cost!… There is no individual freedom in Islamic countries, everything is dictated by the mosque and the state. Dietary laws, prayer times during the day (there is some stuff on some blogs and youtube about kids in Muslim families in Canada, they get beat up and punished if they miss prayer), strict rules about dress codes in public, everything. There is very little crime though, and teenage kids don’t give teachers and parents the problems and headaches that they do here. So it’s a very tempting offer for many desperate people who have no cultural identity anymore, the Devil knows how to manipulate them and it’s easy to do that in the present world.

    As a conclusion, consider what Ayan Hirsi Ali said. Hirsi Ali is a Somali Muslim woman who fled Somalia to escape the oppression of Islam, she lived in the Netherlands for a while. She said that you can’t stop Muslims from being fanatical by converting them to atheism, that will never work. “A good God is the solution. The way Christians perceive God can help Moslems” she said. Suprise, it’s not secular humanism that can change their mentality. 🙂 A woman from an Islamic background understands that. I guess she’s smarter than many Western moral relativists, agnostics and other “enlightened” persons.

    • santitafarella says:

      Conservative,

      Ayan Hirsi Ali is an atheist, and she’s making a pragmatic observation about how to convert Muslims to something else. Obviously, Christianity is less foreign to Muslims in sensibility than atheism. What you are missing is that, in the West, Islam is not a live option for most people, atheist or Christian. They don’t ponder becoming Muslims. It’s mostly those who have been raised in Muslim homes who are Muslims in the West.

      Thus, to imagine, as you have above, that Islam fills a vacuum in Europe left by Christianity is ludicrous. Secular Europeans are not clamoring to return to Christianity or contemplating conversion to Islam. Europe is actually doing quite well, and has worked out a social contract that leaves most Europeans relatively satisfied.

      Germany, by the way, is the second largest exporter in the world now (it passed the United States recently), and it has an unemployment rate lower than that in the United States.

      —Santi

      • conservative says:

        I know Ayan Hirsi Ali is an atheist. After what she’s been through, it’s not suprising.

        About people in the West not pondering on becoming Muslims. They don’t have to ponder. 🙂 Islam has a way of taking over culturally and politically. Look at all the countries where they are the majority. They impose their social and cultural strict rules and the rest of the people just have to obey, if they want to live. In the West it’s different because Muslims are not the majority, at least not yet. But they get so much help from the “useful idiots” to advance their political Islamic agenda, that they don’t even have to be in the majority. Their rules are gradually being imposed through political compromise and because of political correctness. They are using the legal technicalities of Western democracies, against them. Tell me if that’s not diabolically clever. They already have polygamy legalized in Great Britain and the Netherlands, and their religion is above critical scrutiniy and criticism in many countries in Europe. I gave you many examples of people being persecuted in Western Europe because they “offended” Islam. If that’s not enough evidence that Europe is losing its freedom, then I’m sorry, I don’t know what will convince you.

        “Europe is actually doing quite well”.

        Like hell, they are. You know, I’m always amused by people here in America who have this romanticized view of Europe. They think Europe is so wonderful, so free, doing so well. I’ve been to Europe several times and I know what I’m talking about. In reality, Europe has far more problems than we do. Don’t forget that in the last century alone, they had two totalitarian ideologies that sparked a world war and a cold war that was a continuation of World War II. Besides that, don’t forget the Holocaust and the extermination of millions of people under Communist regimes. Also, excessive government regulation and aggressive bureacracy are more common in Europe than here. In one of Germany’s lands (Saxony, or Bavaria etc) a few years ago it was illegal to put the German flag outside your own home because some idiot bureacrats considered it “extreme nationalism”. Here in America, we can put the flag outside of our homes. Many Americans still have patriotism and a cultural identity. Just because Germany is doing a little better economically, that doesn’t mean it’s better overall. Economics is not the only criteria by which you can tell whether or not a country is doing well. In Germany it’s not like here as far as immigrants are concerned. It matters if you are not born there.

        http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/vod/AL32v1_WS
        This is a video with the story and testimony of Kamal Saleem, a former Muslim. He came to America many years ago to wage war, cultural war. Somewhere in the early part of the video, you’ll hear him say “cultural jihad” was his mission. That’s what they’re doing everywhere today. It’s a cultural war, more subtle than terrorism.

        Yes, Islam is going to fill the spiritual and cultural vacuum in much of Europe. No, it’s not ludricrous. Just look at past history. That’s how the Roman Empire was gone, it was destroyed from within by corruption and immorality. It was weak and could not withstand the attacks of the Barbarian tribes and statist Catholicism.
        The social contract and multiculturalism are no match for Islam. The only one that can still stand is America. Because America is balanced, it’s neither a theocratic regime, nor a secular dictatorship. Much of Europe is a strange combination of both. Secular dictatorial political correctness and elements of Islamic theocracy, both can be seen in many countries. Let’s not copy their foolishness.

        I said the Europeans are losing their cultural identity, and that identity was shaped by the Christian faith. You said that Europeans don’t want to return to Christianity.
        Of course they don’t, because their understanding of “Christianity” is limited to the the Dark Ages. Many of them don’t know the difference between a statist religion full of heathen superstitions (much like Islam) and genuine Christianity. The positive influence of genuine Christianity could be seen later after the Reformation, in the lives and deeds of people like David Livingstone, William Carey, Jean Henry Dunant, William Wilberforce, and even in the way the American colonists responded to the despotic claims of the British government and king, when they declared their independence. They knew that the rights of humans come from God the Creator of humans, not from governments, kings, imams or popes. “That all people are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights”. And if the Lord God is willing to allow people freedom of conscience whether that freedom means believing or not believing in Him, then people are obligated to respect each other’s freedom of conscience too. Christ didn’t demand of people to believe in Him as Messiah, before He would heal them or their children. Again, the revisionist rewriting of history by the left wingers would make you believe the Founding Fathers were a bunch of socialistic atheists who hated faith in God and had nothing to do with principles from the Christian religious tradition.

        Rabbi Daniel Lapin of The American Alliance of Jews and Christianity said: “Unlike Europe, with its seemingly insurmountable problems, thank God America is a Christian nation as I see it. I know that nowhere in the past two thousand years have Jews enjoyed as lengthy and tranquil a stay as here in the United States of America.”

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